Where to apply for the first job? 4

[claudiodeviaje]

Hello everyone!

Since I'm almost finished with the university I've come to the point where I have to start looking where I'm going to apply for my fisrt job. I've spoken to some people about this and there are different opinions...

Big companies (multinationals) offer trainee jobs, where you get to know many departments of the company. You get, as the name says, trainment in the activities you'll have to deal with in the future. Besides they pay in average, more than smaller companies and the possibilities to climb and get better positions are better. The Problem is that since they have soooo many engineers, you might end up being the screw-xyz-spezialist and stay there for ever. And at last if you plan to work overseas (I would like to), it allways looks nicer in your CV if you worked for one of the big ones.

Smaller companies don't offer this trainee programs. When you start there, you might get some "coaching" from older engineers, but not always. Sometimes they have just enough engineers to execute the proyect. So you might end up trying to figure out alone how to deal with problems. The good thing here is that you get involved in the whole project and not in just a detail, which makes you learn more.

Are there benefits and disadvantages that I'm missing?
What would recomend... apply with the big ones or the smaller?
And the last one... Are, in general, the trainee programs worth the hassle?

Cheers!

Claudio

 

[swivel63]

go with a smaller company. you'll get more varied experience i would think.

 

[swivel63]

and a mentor who knows his stuff is a wonderful trainee program.

 

[MiketheEngineer]

If you really need a job - take the first good offer you get.

BOTH have advantages and disadvantages.... you are too young to worry about that now.

Get your feet wet for the next 3-4 years and THEN figure out where you belong. Get your PE in the mean time!!

Life is a journey - not a destination!!!

Good Luck...

 

[claudiodeviaje]

Sorry the ignorance, but whats PE?
I live in Germany and have never heard of the term before
... good night

 

[JStephen]

PE (Professional Engineer) is professional licensing required in the US. Don't worry about it if you're not in the US.

For that matter, the answers to your question could vary by country as well- different educational systems, different attitudes about employment and employees.

 

[corus]

Go for a larger company as these tend to have better training opportunities. Smaller companies won't be able to send you on lots fo courses as their budgets will be low. I think it's more important to get continuous training so as to advance further in your job and experience. The larger companies will also help you get your chartered engineer status, PE or EurIng or whatever you call it. Being in a job where you can diversify will also help your career in the long run. Smaller companies may offer more respnsibility, but limited opportunities for diversification.

corus

 

[mshimko]

My reply is - It Varies.

While there are certain traits more common in onse size and type company versus anmother (such as the items mentioned by previus posters), I think it's more important to select THE COMPANY the best fits YOU; and if this is in a large company, you'll need to investigate the indivudual office/department/agency you'll be working in.

There are "crappy" large companies that have good offices, and great companies that have lousy offices.

 

[PSE]

Go after a company that is actually interested in hiring rather than just interviewing.

Find out what you can about a company that interests you. If you know of anyone working there, talk to them directly. How healthy is the company and how does it treat its employees?

In a smaller company, you are going to be tasked to "be productive" sooner than you might at a large one. There is not likely to be as much in the way of training and support (though there will be some). You will need to be able to act decisively with less supervision.

As mshimko indicates, try to find the best fit for you and your personality. Any recommendation on a respondents part is likely based upon their own experience. My personality lends itself to the smaller to mid-size companies as I enjoy the variety of work it entails and I can also see and be involved as projects progress from concept through completion.

Regards,

 

[Ashereng]

I feel it is not so much the company, but the people I will be working with.

I have been in good companies where my imeediate group was not so nice, and also been in bad companies where my immediate group was very nice.

I interact with your peers. If there is a good fit, I will enjoy it more. For a first job, I feel that the "company" as a whole really doesn't matter as much as my immediate boss and my immediate group.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[SomptingGuy]

I agree with Ashereng, but it's not really possible to know with whom you'll be working until it's too late.

I would recommend applying somewhere with a fairly large annual graduate intake (It need not be a big company, my company isn't big but there were quite a few of us taken in at the same time). That way there will be people in the same boat as you, people to compare notes with, a yardstick to measure your progress against. Moreover, people to flat-share with in those first few years - a kind of continuation of college life.

 

[KENAT]

be more worried about what area of engineering I thought I wanted to work in than whether large, medium or small company. Mechanical is a large field covering areas of Civil (HVAC, elevators etc), Automotive, Aerospace, Defense, Manufacturing Machinery…. I’d doubt the sense of working in a company designing auto accessories if you’d rather be doing HVAC (unless it’s the only job available). Try and find a job doing something you’re interested in, there’s plenty of time later in your career to be stuck in a job you’re not so fond of because of kids, Mortgage etc., try and make the first one interesting if you can.

Once you decide the field that may at least partially answer the question as some fields are dominated by a few large companies while others are mostly smaller companies and others have a mix.

I started in a fairly small Aerospace/Defense company and it actually gave me more opportunities for career advancement than some large companies would have, although to some extent it was sink or swim. It also very much taught me to be a “jack of all trades”, certainly not the screw xyz specialist!

PE/CEng/EurIng or whatever the applicable one is aren’t as relevant in some areas of engineering as others at least in UK/US, for instance in California at least there isn’t a PE for aeronautical/aerospace. That said, having it probably gives more options. I don’t know what the situation is in Germany though, it may differ.

 

[civilperson]

Apply at all size companies, the response may limit your choice so be ready to take the first good offer.

 

[TheTick]

Learn how big companies work. Small companies need this experience from you later.

 

[claudiodeviaje]

thank you everyone for your replies...

Actually in Germany the work offers are in a peak. According to the VDI (german engineering asociation), Germany is short on at least 15000 engineers!!! Companies here are having problems hiring people. That means of course that I have a gigantic offer of possible companies.

I've worked in a big multinational vehicle manufacturer and in an investigation center. And after comparing both of them I realized how important the working climate is. The only problem is that you realize where you are AFTER getting the job. So actually you can just HOPE to get a nice team.

Probably corus and TheTick are right. Maybe to apply at a middle to big company would be beneficial as a first job. You get to know how they think, you get training, and the money. After that i could bring that knowledge to a smaller one if i want to. The money is going to be spend in vacations, thou

One thing of for sure.... The opinios are definetly divided...

 

[swivel63]

"although to some extent it was sink or swim"

that's the reason i love my current firm and hope the future one gives me the same atmosphere. you don't become a good engineer until you want to be, not until someone from middle management gives you a poor review.

 

[Sideswiper]

I'm new in my industry and I think I would have liked a big company trainee program, but instead I started at a small company. The other engineers in substation design were pretty busy and I was having to change my expectations an really begin to kick myself in the rear to get busy. Though after a while the protection engineer who had been looking to hire someone experienced took an interest in me so I changed managers. I find this field a little more interesting and I'm getting just enough guidance to start getting some confidence in myself. Plus it's a small enough company I may still do some substation design as well, because I'm being groomed to be a knowledgable power engineer who will stay when the majority of the power engineers all retire at once...

So all said and done I feel like if you just keep your head up things will work out. Any company, small or big, has a interest in putting you where you will be a best fit.

 

[KENAT]

While I think swivel understood what I meant by 'sink or swim' I should probably clarify for the OP. It wasn't that the other engineers and staff didnt' help me, they certainly did but there wasn't some kind of 'trainee' safety net. They helped me because I went out of my way to fit in and busted a gut doing the best I could do. My actual manager set very high goals and my direct supervisor was too busy to hand hold me, hence it was sink or swim.

 

[kchayfie]

I've worked in both a big company and a small company. The team I was in at the big company was smaller than my team here in the small company so the opportunities to learn from others isn't necessarily a factor of the number of people employed in the business. It depends how important your chosen field is to the core business of the company.

In both cases, the graduates who got on quickest and made the transition from being treated as "engineer" instead of "graduate" or "trainee" or "newbie" were the ones who showed the most interest in their projects, listened when people were trying to teach them, asked questions that showed they had been thinking about the project and were generally more enthusiastic about becoming good engineers. Those that were expecting other people to train them and wanted to be spoon-fed information and rarely got their brain into gear continue to be treated as "the-new-kid-who-knows-nothing".

Your attitude to your work will be far more important to your development than starting out with the right type of company.

 

[epoisses]

go to a big company
learn a lot
start to hate it
move to a small company
live happily ever after