Where to go next? 4

[mj1985]

I graduated from Queens Belfast with a BEng in Mech. Eng. in July. I
am currently seeking to undertake a masters in order to start on the
CEng route. I am trying to use your knowledge of engineering to find
which you feel would be best. I have narrowed it down to two options;

1. MEng from the open university
2. MSc in Enginnering management from Brunnel University via distant learning.

I have looked at both in detail and still cannot decide which would
compliment my degree most. Would the MEng almost overlap my first
degree to employers? Would the OU degrade the MEng to others?

Brunnel from my knowledge is known as one of the best engineering
universities there is. This may benefit me more if I decide to move
company in the future. Would the MSc look much less a masters than
the MEng?

I am currently in a very technical role and the MEng looks much more
technical as the MSc builds on 'soft' skills more. From Queens the
BEng is also mostly technical so perhaps gaining this MSc would
benefit me more. I am really stuck as to which would be best to
compliment my degree.

Both options are similar financially and in terms of completion time.

In the future I would like to move into management as I feel this may
be a strong point of mine but I know both offer management modules.
Any help on this matter would be very much appreciated. I know that
it's my decision but any advice would be great.

Thank you in advance,

Marc

 

[sow]

MJ,

My opinion, for what its worth...

If you see your career in engineering management (within say 5-10 years) then perhaps you should do the management course?

If you see your role as being technical, for at least the next 5-10 years then you should consider the technical course. If so I would think hard about if this MEng is going to help with the field of engineering you decide to pursue. There is no point in doing very invloved theory if you will never need to apply it.

Perhaps you should leave it a year or two so you have a clearer idea of what you want to do -surley the institution you look to gain chartership would still let you join an MPDS and count this towards your proffesional development?

As for how potential employers would compare the two degrees I would imagine that your commitment to chartership would impress them irrespective of the university - that said Brunel does have a certain ring to it?

Good luck

 

[mj1985]

Thanks sow,

I have since been told that the MEng is considered an undergraduate course where as the Msc is considered post-grad. If I do decide to do the MEng it has to be completed within a certain time frame from when I graduated so I would not be able to wait a year to decide. Speaking to IMechE they feel it would be a close call with the MSc maybe just shading it.

The actual engineering community’s opinion is very important to my decision so your view is very much appreciated.

Thank you

 

[ScottyUK]

Is the OU degree accepted by the IMechE? I know at least one person who's electrical OU degree was refused by the IEE because of the choice of modules. Something to carefully check.

I would personally stay away from management until you have 15-20 years in the industry. There are so many people who have entered management early in their careers who are, at best, indifferent managers because of their lack of experience. Had they waited longer many would probably be far more effective. Also consider that in the UK junior and middle managers are ten a penny and skilled technical staff are getting rare. Some industries like power are losing technical staff several times faster than new blood is entering the field, and in that situation the technical staff are commanding significant premiums. In an saturated market the same is not true of junior and middle managers.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[HamishMcTavish]

mj1985 - you say you are currently in a very technical role, what is it?

Several comments about your decision -

1) Both the OU and Brunel are highly regarded
2) It would be worth checking whether you need to do any supporting modules prior to taking the OU MEng
3) If you are trying to get chartered through the IMEchE you should look through UK-SPEC which has a section on the academic requirements

http://www.engc.org.uk/documents/CEng_IEng_Standard.pdf

although as ScottyUK says the IMechE will be the arbiter so you should check with them. I'm assuming that the Queen's BEng course is IMechE accredited, otherwise you could have difficulty.

If it's any consolation i did a very circuitous route to being chartered (BEng Aeronautical, MSc Bioengineering and chartered through the IMechE) where they assessed my qualifications and it all came good!

BTW i agree with ScottyUK when he says that people with technical skills are getting rarer - also lots of employers have in-house management courses which you can usually link to BTEC type courses.

Cheers, HM





No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

 

[TPL]

I would suggest that putting this much effort into gaining chartered engineers status through the IMechE just isn't worth it.

If you are are a recent graduate then you have probably been encouraged to go down this route by your tutors but..as a member for more than 15 years I can say that I have had no benefit whatsoever. As a rotating equipment engineer dealing with gas turbines and compressors, the IMechE is totally irrelevant to my job - not so true if you are into railways or cars though.

Like many educational institutions, the IMechE has 'dumbed down' membership requirements (at all levels)and has introduced lower grades of membership in order to maintain its revenue stream - this seems to be its most important function.

Sorry for the minor rant, but I believe that you should try to plan your qualifications and career around what is best for your long term future.

CEng is not the same as the North American PE which has some value.

 

[mj1985]

I am working as a technical engineer specifying and sourcing equipment for projects. I also create P&IDs based on mass flow within the aggregate industry. My main job is to receive sales jobs at an early stage then develop a system that will process given raw feed tonnage and volume producing the desired products. If the sale is successfully I then take this through to the installation/commissioning stage creating the BOM etc.

I have looked and checked with IMechE and both options are fully approved and both meet the academic requirement of IMechE. Also the BEng (Hons) from Queen’s is accredited by IMechE.

As I am in a technical role for the foreseeable further and my degree is almost solely technical adding the MEng which is mainly technical may make me seem a little too technical perhaps lacking the ‘softer’ skills. Again I don’t know if this is correct.

Also to ScottyUk’s comment even if I study Msc in Engineering Management I am not really planning to go into management within the next 10 years. I hope to gain a lot of technical knowledge over the next 10 years or so then attempt to move into a more management role – perhaps within a technical position or maybe not.

To TPL – I am not sure if the CEng will benefit me but a masters surely will benefit my CV to potential employers. I would like to get it while I’m young and don’t have many other worries like family, house etc.

The MSc in Engineering Management course is a mix of technical and soft skills (mainly soft though). So if I remain in my technical role for say 15 years surely I would still be considered someone with technical skills. I am not trying to get away from a technical role I am just trying to add a dimension to myself via the masters. I just don’t know which would benefit me long term more!

I have to decide by Wednesday this week as the OU course 1st module closes then. Thank you all for your comments it’s good to read people’s views in helping me make the decision.

Thanks,

Marc

 

[HamishMcTavish]

Re TPL's comments about Chartered status

The 'value' of CEng is debatable but lots of external and internal job adverts post it as a requirement or desirable. As a contractor the feedback i've had is that it is desirable. There will always be good and not so good chartered engineers (same as PEs in the states) the key is what you do with it.

The IMechE may have 'dumbed down' the requirements for corporate membership (according to TPL) but the requirements and criteria for Chartered status are set by the Engineering Council via UKSPEC

I found the process of gaining chartered status a positive experience and the requirement to regularly assess personal and professional development (with my then employer) to be very useful.

Regards, HM

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam

 

[GregLocock]

My experience is more along with TPL's, to the extent that at 48 I haven't bothered to get Chartership. To be honest I am /that/ close to chucking my associate membership and joining the SAE, which organization at least condescends to send me a relevant magazine, at no additional charge.

In the 30 years for which I have been paying subs the IMechE has done NOTHING to improve the professional standing of engineers, all it has done is amalgamated with 'lesser' institutes (how can an acoustician with an acoustics degree be a MIMechE CEng?) and grandfathered their members in, and then diluted its own entrance requirements. Oh, and expanded its bureaucracy by leaps and bounds.




Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[ScottyUK]

Hey Greg,

They should have merged with the IEE after all, seems their aims aren't so far apart.

From the electrical perspective, C.Eng still carries some value although increasingly companies are looking at when you achieved it. There is a perception that it is getting easier to obtain these days, and the perceived value counts for everything among employers. I don't intend that as a criticism of anyone who is pursuing C. Eng, it is aimed squarely at the IEE and IMechE who lately are behaving like profit-making companies looking to maximise turnover and not as professional bodies upholding the standards of the members.

I admit that I am still fizzing about the IEE merger a year or two ago when it became the "IET", something whose creation I voted against and which I have no intention of recognising. Plus the wonderful new dumbed-down organisation has stopped the discipline-specific magazines which at least made me feel like I got something for my subscription. My employer pays the membership fee otherwise I think I would have scrapped it by now; I haven't got money to throw away on something which offers such poor value.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[mj1985]

I'm not going to undertake a masters just for IMechE, it's to develop myself and to make me stand out if I do decide to move on in say 10-15 years. The CEng is more employer driven and is not costing me anything financially and reports seem to be non-time consuming so I don't mind much.

My real question is which masters would compliment my degree more? Not even for CEng but more for my appeal within the industry.

Thanks,

Marc

 

[HamishMcTavish]

mj1985,

I would have said that doing a technical MSc would stand up better in the long run - soft skills are much easier to pick up with on the job training and (if you go down the route of chartered status) will form at least part of the monitored professional development scheme run by the IMechE.

Apologies as this is slightly off thread
Greg I may be missing something but last time i checked the Institute of Acoustics was a professional organisation in its own right (recognised by the Engineering Council) and offering chartered status to its own membership. How did you get to acoustics professionals being chartered mechanical engineers?

Cheers, HM

No more things should be presumed to exist than are absolutely necessary - William of Occam