Where to put most recent, but unrelated experience 1

[casseopeia]

My current resume is ordered starting from most recent experience back to about 12 years ago. I’ve been unemployed for 10 months and according to the government, I am considered ‘long-term’ unemployed. I’d like to include my most recent work to diffuse any misconception by potential employers that I am hopelessly unemployable and that I’ve been sitting around for a year watching The Jerry Springer Show and Wyotech commercials.

The problem is that in addition to free-lance expert witness cases, my most recent work includes modeling gigs and volunteer or unpaid intern work, not all of which is specifically related to my profession. Do I lead with the most recent although it includes an on-line instructional yoga video, general secretarial duties for an industrial arts school and teaching dance to the blind? Do I find elements of those unpaid jobs that may be of some use, like learning new software and how to weld? Do I include modeling as a background figure in some local architectural photography, but not the print photos portraying a patient recently diagnosed with an incurable disease? Do I put that stuff in a cover letter which in all likelihood go straight into the garbage and not get read?

My gut reaction before was not to include any of the modeling or volunteer work, but I’d at least like to bring it up as a demonstration of my persistence, breadth of knowledge and experience, and toughness. A factor that generally comes up at interview in expert witness work is if you can take the heat of cross-examination in deposition or in the courtroom. What I’ve experienced as a paid expert does not come close to the grilling I’ve taken as a volunteer expert witness by Stanford law students in a mock trial competition. As an expert witness you must remain unfazed by character assassination by the opposing counsel and come back unaffected. I’d like to demonstrate that I have persisted in auditioning for performance arts and modeling although I have had to endure rejection after rejection, being told by various agencies that I am too fat, too thin, too tall, 2” too short, too old, not old-looking enough and not ‘it’. Yet I have persisted and have been surprisingly successful at it.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[zdas04]

I've rarely gotten good advice from headhunters, but one told me once that I should only include experience that was relevant to the job I was seaking. For gaps he said to put "working on personal development" or some such.

So if you're looking for a job as a yoga instructor or a model, that stuff seems relevant. If you're looking for an engineering job it is probably "personal development".

David

 

[kelowna]

Just a thought. Why not add another heading to the resume called 'other experience'or something like that. That way it is there but it does not distract from the main points on your experience.

 

[Hydromechdude]

I have a section for volunteer work and I use it (among other things) to demonstrate skills gained not at work. That being said, I only include relevant skills/experiences to the job I'm applying for.

 

[TStaples]

Another suggestion is to list it, briefly, not too much detail, and headline it with "Near Term Work Experience" and state "while searching for for the right opportunity in my career field of (fill in the blank)."

The main thing is to come across as positive. I like to see that people who are not currently working in their primary or chosen career field are at least doing SOMETHING while searching.

Good luck in your search!

-Tony Staples

http://www.tscombustion.com

 

[msquared48]

Cass:

I would mention the experience in the past 10 months, at least in passing. I know that modeling and teaching dance, as examples, highly involve the use of people skills, a very valuable tool in marketing, an applicable and useful skill in any profession.

As you have surmised, there are skills other than engineering employers need, and marketing experience is one of them. Don't ignore them.

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

 

[KENAT]

Well, having modeling listed might actually help get you in the door at some places, even if it's just 'cause the pervy old engineer fancies an ogle.

Getting the interview is often a big part of the battle. Once there you can dazzle them with your technical skills.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[kacarrol]

Casseopeia,

I always have an extra section at the very end of my resume where I list things like this. For instance I used to be a ski instructor, I put that in my extra-curricular section and it has come up in a lot of interviews as a kind of ice breaker. I have also referenced it in cover letters to underline communication skills. Although I would always start my resume with my actual job related experience I think that your other experiences deserve credit also.

You may also consider a skill based resume. But they have their pros and cons also.

Good luck!
K

 

[beej67]

I would include a single line item for your most recent work, much like the other line items for previous work, and simply call it "Freelance." Then describe briefly the sort of work you've been doing. Don't let it take up too much space on your page though, because it's not what you want to feature.

Hydrology, Drainage Analysis, Flood Studies, and Complex Stormwater Litigation for Atlanta and the South East -

http://www.campbellcivil.com

 

[Ron]

Cass..Mike nailed it. Read it twice. He gets a star!

 

[racookpe1978]

kelowna (Structural)
10 Aug 10 13:45
"Just a thought. Why not add another heading to the resume called 'other experience' or something like that. That way it is there but it does not distract from the main points on your experience. "

I don't follow any of the standard resume guidelines (nbr of pages, format, etc.) but added 3 comparable paragraphs to my resume:

COMPUTER SKILLS

* Software: MicroStation, AutoCAD R10, R12, R14, AutoCAD 2002, AutoCAD 2007 (tested, designed, and de-bugged AutoCAD and MicroStation add-on 3D CAD package systems); Design CAD 3D, IntelliCAD; HyperSnap (Beta testing). CADWorx (Eqpt and Steel, Piping.)
* Microsoft Word, Excel, Lotus, MS Access, PowerPoint and Outlook; MSProject (PERT Charts, resources, milestones, work breakdown structures, task analysis (Ver 4.0), Primavera (interface development only).

PERSONAL SKILLS

Ornamental Iron: Casting, Pattern and mold-making, MIG/TIG welding, machining, plasma and torch cutting, steel fitting and erection, railing design, installation. Finish carpentry and stair fabrication, electrical and HVAC installation, interior, concrete and plumbing.

SELECTED PUBLICATIONS & PRESENTATIONS
(list of papers followed)

You may to consider some format like that. As I mentioned, my four page doc absolutely does not meet the "max of two pages" criteria commonly quoted, but it got me hired.

 

[berkshire]

Cass,
Just put it in a section marked " other experience" like Racookpe said.

In that section when I had to look for a job, I used to add stuff like that, I was a licenced pilot, a licenced sailing instructor, a youth counselor, and any continuing education certs I had recently taken, plus any volunteer work I had done. You know the drill put anything in there you think will help. If its not helpful leave it out, or bury it in a summary at the very back of the resume.
B.E.

 

[sam74]

If it were me I would definitely include anything I had done for the sake of the public good while I was laid off in the main body of my work experience to fill in voids. It shows you have intiative in a bad spot of your work life. Shiat happens, deal with it the best you can and if you can still be a helpful individual for society or even for just yourself you earn big points in my book.

I would definitely mention volunteer work in the main body of the resume. I wouldn't include pictures as you had mentioned but I might be interested in the online yoga videos. Got a link?

Best of luck.

 

[HgTX]

Yours is the kind of situation that screams out for a skills-based resume. Then you title the chronological section "Selected Experience" and leave out the irrelevant stuff, unless you want to put it in an "other experience" section at the very bottom along with things like scout leadership.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[casseopeia]

I ended up creating a new section on a separate page, more like an addendum to my resume, titled Interim Work and References. I listed four different short-term or temporary assignments, two of which are directly related to my field of construction defect forensics and expert witness testimony and included personal references for each of those. The job as a volunteer intern at an industrial arts school I described as being outside of my work history and experience but that it afforded an opportunity to adapt my skill set to new situations. I also have a very good personal reference associated with this job.

The modeling/acting stuff was a bit more difficult. I feel I had to put the Onglyza work in because I have run into my own image staring back at me from animated banner ads currently running on numerous, unrelated websites. These are high profile sites like Yahoo Answers, WebMD, AllRecipes, medicineonline, medterms and diabetesdaily. I figure at some point an interviewer might see it as well, so I thought I should bring it up first sort of matter-of-fact. The other work has not yet been published yet, so I didn’t mention it. If asked about why I would include the modeling and acting work, my reasoning beyond the likelihood of seeing my image is that a skill any expert must have is to be able to present evidence in court and appear authoritative and trustworthy. ?Acting skills come in handy for that.

I did include small photos for each of the assignments and formatted the page differently from the main body of my resume. It's more like a promotional brochure than curriculum vitae look.

sam74, the yoga video has not yet been released pending additional funding I guess. This is why it's so important to get your money up front for stuff like this. I've emailed the art director and producer and have not gotten a single response. But if you go to any medical website and look up things related to diabetes, you will likely see my banner ad that starts with me in a meditation pose and changes over to a prayer pose. I attached the image that is seen the longest, so look for that.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[MikeHalloran]

I'll second Mike McCann, and add that I'm not convinced the addendum will do what you want.

It's a little arrogant to assume that _you_ know what skills are important to a potential employer.

Worse, the separation of your new adventures might send a message you don't intend; that they're somehow less important or less deserving of respect than your technical skills.

I'd put the new stuff into strict chronological order with the older stuff, because functional or unusual resume formats arouse instant suspicion among HR weenies. I wouldn't even make it visually distinct.

I would try to work in something about how it _all_ enhances you as a person. ... not that there was any room for improvement, of course.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[casseopeia]

Sorry Mike. That doesn't work for me. I'll run my revised resume by a couple of HR weenies that I know and they hate it, I'll know I'm on the right track.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[HgTX]

I still vote for using a skills-based resume and leaving it all out, and I agree with Mike that putting it on a separate page, rather than de-emphasizing it, could backfire by drawing more attention to it.

They're not going to recognize you from the ad. If they do, they'll just have this vague idea that they've seen you before and assume that you look like someone they have met before.

But...it sounds like you really want to tell people you've been modeling and acting, and are looking for excuses to do so. In which case, go for it. Free country, etc.

Hg

Eng-Tips policies: faq731-376

 

[casseopeia]

I heard back from one HR weenie who said, “I like it but....” She had some good feedback, however and suggested that I put the two projects that are directly related, expert witness testimony, at the top in chronological order with my other experience and the other two, volunteer front desk and modeling, at the back under “Interests and Hobbies.” Then to break out the references in a separate heading. She also had a good observation for my particular field that if I know the outcome of a case, to make mention of that in my resume, like I did for my consulting testimony.

I also asked if I should skip the Hobbies and Interests altogether and drop the personal references associated with each and she said no. She would include it since my image is out there. It’s not that I want to mention either front desk secretarial or modeling work. If I did, I’d put it in strict chronological order as MikeHalloran suggests. But I certainly didn’t want to put it ahead of employment in my field. If it weren’t for the references, I’d drop both. As far as being recognized, for individuals who have not seen me on a regular basis, I’d say I’m over concerned. But two people who are within the very small community of construction defect experts, the community in which I am seeking employment, have contacted me to ask about it.

I suppose I have a bit of an ulterior motive in that if I can do a modeling assignment and make $100/hr and be free to take time off from a job to do that, I’d at least like to be able to have that choice. But I have to get to the point of having a full time job with enough accrued vacation time. And if the opportunity presents itself, I can at least point to a resume that mentions the prior work so no one should be surprised.

"If you are going to walk on thin ice, you might as well dance!"

 

[plasgears]

I once put together a resume with all the eng experience since grad with ME. In addition, I added my pilot qualifications: commercial, instrument, instructor, multi eng, etc. When the HR person saw that she asked 'what are you looking for, an engineering position or a pilot position?' I quickly removed all references to aviation after that.

Leave out all the unrelated stuff. Toastmasters ref was always a plus. Service experience summary is fine, too.