Where will Geotech engineers be most valued in 5 years? 6

[DirtSmuggler]

Back story: I work at a multi discipline company in the NY metro area. Often that we discovered the civil and/or structural department excludes the geotech department in project and try to do the geotech work themselves. About 9 out of 10 times, they screw up and we have to come in and save them. But when we do come in for the save, it can never be billable time. This causes our department to have the highest overhead charges because we have to "be a team player" and help them out. The other department try to do the geotech work themselves, sometimes to save cost, and sometimes to keep their own department busy (and hours) instead of "outsourcing" it to the geotech department. Other department head are quite arrogant and think their department matter more than ours. Whenever we do get added to collaborate projects, the budget allocated to us is tiny compared to everyone else. So its very difficult to stay under budget. Whereas other departments spend most of their time "drafting emails" which are "very important". So are department often goes out and try to find are own work and our own clients individually to keep billables and profits up. But we are always forced to prioritize the collaborative projects over our own individual project. So I don't feel like the geotech department is valued here. I don't know if this is the same at other multi-discipline company. I'm only staying at this company because my direct boss is awesome and has taught me so much. I love learning from him and want to learn as much as I can before he retires in 5 years. So I'm here for the growth (salary is lower compared to other offers). But I don't know how long I would want to stay here. Additionally, geotech salary are much lower than those in the structural and civil department at this company.

So I was wondering, where will geotech engineers be most valued in 5 years? Whether within the US or internationally. Within the US, I hear from coworkers that Colorado (tunnels) will be good for geotech and internationally I'm hearing Singapore (tunnels) and New Zealand (rail). Salary and respect are much higher there vs the US. I wondering what insight the community has on the future for geotech and where they would be most valued.

 

[geotechguy1]

Places with large infrastructure projects like tunnels, bridges and roads planned - note their may be some upskilling; tunneling is really it's own discipline that can involve rock mechanics, soil mechanics, hydrogeology, some aspects of structural and then soft ground or hard ground tunneling techniques.

Areas where there is a mining boom - note that you might have to sort of sub-specialize in tailings dams or pit design and their may be upskilling

Areas that are seismically active, especially after a large earthquake (anywhere with an M7.5-M8 or a destructive earthquake in a city is money for 10 years)

Areas where a large amounts of landslides happen eg. after a large storm event

Actually, I think all of these areas probably require some upskilling - earthquake geotech is really branching off into it's own thing that's part of a wider discipline involving things like probabilistic seismic hazard assessments and advanced modeling techniques. Geotech engineers are also becoming increasingly out of place on landslides if you don't have good knowledge and skills of geomorphology, LIDAR/space based monitoring, GIS, hydrology, hydrogeology, statistics. Tunnelling is basically it's own discipline that you can bridge into via geotech.

In a way, geotechnical engineering is going through what civil engineering went through - all of the interesting / technically challenging parts are essentially becoming their own disciplines. What's left is the sort of generalist geotech land development copy-paste report world which is an awful place to be.

 

[canwesteng]

I certainly don't think it's typical for structural to do geotechnical work as you've described it. Normally structural would receive parameters and design the foundations using those (bearing pressure, skin frictions, etc). I'm not even sure how the geotech could be left to last.

 

[TigerGuy]

It sounds to me like the leadership at your firm is the problem. Any true multiple discipline design firm should know and recognize the value brought to each project from every department involved.

Your current boss may be willing to continue to mentor you after hours. You need to do what is best for you and your career. Review the available offers with your eyes wide open and pick the best fit and opportunity.

 

[Gr8blu]

"Best" for one individual might not be "best" for another. Someone might be all about the capitalization of their skills (i.e. $$$) while others might place more value on the camaraderie of their colleagues, the ability to learn from their peers, or simply the pace of non-work life. For myself, I spent decades with companies where I could learn more about what I enjoyed doing (in my case, electrical engineering related to rotating machines and power electronics) - and never chased the higher salaries available at other jobs.

One thing you often cannot replace is a good mentor. If your present coworker (boss) is willing to keep teaching, keep learning.

Converting energy to motion for more than half a century

 

[dik]

If I work on a project, I record the time... if just a little time, to help a client, I put it down as NC (non-chargeable)... and my employer notes it as such, but records it nonetheless. For situations like you describe, it would not be non-chargeable.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[DirtSmuggler]

@geotechguy1 thanks for the valuable insight. It seems I need to figure out a specialization. I would love to do tunneling.

@canwesteng , it's not typical, but they do it to keep the billables to themselves instead of "outsourcing to us". Departments with more billables are rewarded with more bonuses. Every department thinks they are superior and better than the other department. Not much synergy.

@TigerGuy I plan to stick around here as long as my mentor is here. Once he retires in 5 years, there's no value for me to stay given how the inter-department relationships are here, especially with the lack of respect for geotech department. This is why I want to learn where geotech are valued more and make the move there. In the mean time, learn what I need to learn to excel in that area.

@Gr8blu All my past companies, superiors did not bother spending time teaching anything. Even when I went out and learned it on my own, I wasn't given the opportunity to advance. Current mentor loves teaching. So it was a perfect match. I plan to stick with him till he retires.

@dik , it shouldn't be non-chargeable, but it's imposed on us that when we spend time to help and save their mistake, we can't charge because it'll go over budget.

Due to the inter department relationship and lack of respect for geotech, i'm trying to prepare myself now for the future, especially after my mentor retires and leaves. So i'll study and learn what needs to be learned for whatever area is the best area and expertise for the future of geotechs. Plan to be strategic in my upskilling. But I guess I also need to figure out which specialization I want to get into.

thanks for all your insights.

 

[GeoEnvGuy]

Some comments on your back story, you could make the argument that the final work which gets stamped which is the chargeable work and the other departments time should be backed out and put to training or overhead. The pay structure for each discipline could be slightly different but in general the chargeout rate determines the compensation, so you should identify if your company has significantly different chargeout rates at the low end or the high end for equivalent responsibility levels.

To your question of where geotechs are valued is pretty much every major city on the planet so pick a city then figure out which of the consultants do what you want to be doing. Also all companies are not perfect so there will always be griping about something, if there was a perfect company everyone would work for them. I see a lot of engineers jumping ships for compensation because the existing company pay raise structure doesn't get them to what the market is offering so there is less loyalty to a company if they are not keeping you compensated to the level of responsibility and your chargeout rate multiplier just keeps getting higher every year.

 

[CWB1]

I cant comment on geotech matters but the accounting issue is idiotic. All time spent on a project should be charged to that project, regardless if the customer is billed for it or not. Not only is honest accounting important to track profit and costs for internal decision-making, but it affects tax treatments and other external considerations that may cause an audit. Hopefully the accounting dept and execs have a method of tracking the mess.

Given the sketchy accounting and folks illegally/unethically practicing outside their experience, I'd run before that ship sinks your reputation.

 

[DirtSmuggler]

@GeoEnvGuy yeah it is ridiculous. My direct boss often fights with the other department heads regarding these issues. But they turn it around on him telling him he's not "being a team player".

@CWB1 The only reason I'm here is for my direct boss. He's a great mentor and has given me more valuable education and experience in the past year than I have in the past 8 years. Right now it's worth dealing with the BS from other departments just for the growth experience I'm getting.

I'm willing to relocate, even internationally, if the value of geotech engineers is much greater in that region. I may also need to consider salary expectation in other areas and cost of living. I'm in the NY/NJ metro area and the cost living has become unbearable with current salary. So getting out of this area may also have its benefit for better cost of living.

In the past employments, I only did projects for private companies. Now I'm doing more public agency work, so I feel like I provide more value to society vs just making developers wealthier. But for now it's just pump stations, abutments, and utility work. Hopefully in the future I get to work on more exciting projects that contributes more toward society. Even if that requires relocation.

 

[SWComposites]

DS,
While it makes sense to stay with your boss as he is a good mentor, his retirement plans may change,
So you need to have plan B (and plan C) ready in case he retires or has a medical issue earlier. Start looking for other opportunities now. Particularly if they might involve relocating which takes a lot of research, effort, coordination, depending on your family situation.