Who are the major players in Wind Energy?

[cry22]

Hello wind experts

We have been asked by a client to perform a special task consisting of gathering a team of experts in the field of wind energy to install a 300 MW wind farm.

The client does not want to deal with large manufcaturers directly (at least for now). He wants them to report to us first and we will evaluate the different proposals for a short list.
We will lead some minor engineering aspects of the projects (mainly civil work, some project management, client representation, etc..)

Story short, there is a lot info out there on the net, but could some of you lead me to some reputable manufacturers, designers, installers in the US?.

US Firms are the No 1 choice, and probably the only choice.

One more thing: who are the top three Turbine manufcaturers out there in you opinion?

Thank you and happy new year to all.

 

[dpc]

GE
Vestas

GE has a US patent on the superior generator technology. Both companies have a lot of experience building wind turbines.

 

[metengr]

So does Siemens and Mitsubishi. Our power generation company has six different wind turbine suppliers that we deal with, and we will have 5,000 Mw's of wind farms in the US by 2012. We currently have 1800 Mw of wind farms in operation since 1997.

My short list of the most reliable wind turbines based on actual availability numbers and O&M cost figures are

GE
Siemens
Vestas
Mitsubishi
Clipper

cry22, how much expierence do you really have withconducitng suitability stidues for a client. If you need to ask here you may be in over your head.

Current problems with some of the OEM's above with their equipment is;

blade cracking
gear box high speed and intermediate pinion failures
gear box bearing problems (Vestas)

 

[cry22]

metenger, dpc

Thank you very much for your replies.

metenger, I am not making suitability studies, a great deal of that is done by the client already, but the selected team will confirm all the selected sites, prior to proceeding.
I only gather and select the team, and that (project procurement) I can do, and you'd be surprised how some really good info comes from the least likely of sources.

The ranking you just gave me along dpc confirmed some of my research, I had relegated Suzlon to last, and totally skipped clipper. I had GE, Siemens, Mitsubishi (I guess everyone trusts evreything japanese), and Vestas, in that order. Thanks to guys like you and me, posting here confirms a lot of gut feels.

Oh, I'd love to hear of advantages and disadvantages of each of these manufacturers from seasoned guys like you if that is not asking too much of everyone.

Are there any custom turbine assemblies? i.e. take the best blade from one manufacturer, the best gear box form the other, etc.. and still get a warranty.

weird that you mention gear box problems from Vestas, my search indicates that they get top dollar (a suspicious $1600/KW) when industry average is around $1000/kw. How can they be so expensive with gear box problems?

I am also interested in costs and timeline of delivery along with other things such as design/build and operate structures.

I have the environmental thing, the power distribution, the civil apsect, any small facility that may be needed, even the communication and political aspect, etc, well under control through various consultants.

And last but not least, I am trying to separate the design team from the construction team in figuring out their respective fees. I do have a good idea of what the numbers should be, but places such as this forum as excellent to check things out.

metenger, ultimately, this will be left to the pros, not me.
Right now, I am leaning GE.

Sorry about the long post. I just got some official info from the client but still awaiting translation for further discussion (I hope).

 

[dcasto]

T Boone Pickens. GE is a provider, not a player.

 

[dpc]

I'd be wary of anecdotal stories of problems. They ALL have had problems at some point. Many of the problems occur when new, larger units are brought out. I'd be more concerned about what support is provided when problems occur.

Your selection may depend on the size range you are considering. I'd look at each manufacturer's offering in your size range and talk with end users of THAT model if possible.

If it were me, I'd write a spec and get some bids.

 

[metengr]

dpc
They ALL have had problems at some point. And they still do....

 

[JLSeagull]

http://www.window.state.tx.us/specialrpt/energy/pdf/11-WindEnergy.pdf

The Texas reports reflect developers such as Gamesa, GE Energy, John Deere Wind, Mitsubishi, Siemens, TECO-Westinghouse and Vestas.

The following link includes a Texas Wind Energy Industry Directory:

http://www.texasone.us/site/DocServ...rgy_Industry_Company_Directory.pdf?docID=2241

 

[cry22]

dpc,

They ALL indeed must've had problems at some point, the nature of R&D and everything fairly new. Wouldn't one think that at this point, some techlogical aspects of the trade be fairly under control by evreyone?

As for specs: The thing about writing specs for such a thing is somewhat problematic, it is always around one manufacturer. Proprietary of sort. You have to comit to a product.

Again, thank you all for your help and please keep it coming.

 

[cry22]

dcasto,
Wonder what you mean by "GE is a a provider, not a player"
and what on earth is "T. Boone Pickens"? getting me confused, man !!! must be something that I lost in translation.

Provider or designer, aren't they ALL players?

 

[dpc]

As for specs: The thing about writing specs for such a thing is somewhat problematic, it is always around one manufacturer. Proprietary of sort. You have to comit to a product.

Whatever you think. I've written specs for equipment with greater variability than this. It's tough to evaluate a price proposal if you are only evaluating one supplier.

 

[FreddyNurk]

Out of curiousity, where does Enercon fit into the lineup of Wind Turbine manufacturers? I would have thought that their lack of gearbox would be a desirable feature given the amount of issues with gearboxes that seem to be experienced.

I agree with DPC with regards to assessment of proposals.

 

[metengr]

Writing specifications for wind turbine procurement is an ideal thought. I absolutely agree with having an engineering specification for wind turbines. However, because of the supply/demand side economics, an engineering specification provided by a customer will do absolutely nothing in today’s market.

Most wind turbine OEM's know they have a demand side market at present and until that changes, the OEM's will ignore those customers that want a hybrid product. I have seen this happen over the last year. It did appear that when the production tax credits were in danger of not being extended, the wind turbine OEM’s seemed a bit more reasonable to listen to customer’s demands for increased product quality.

 

[Zoobie]

FreddyNurk:

Enercon would be up there if it weren't for the fact that they are in a dispute (patent related?) with GE and are unable to sell there product in the US...though I think that this expires in a couple of years.

 

[unclesyd]

cry22 T. Boone is a very rich oil and gas man that was going to build the world's largest wind farm of 770 units in West Texas until the energy market turned south. The local GE turbine plant was crushed by his stop order. They are not enough cars left in the parking lot to start a used car lot.
Aside from the fact that he makes millions everyday on oil and gas Pickins is still a strong proponent of wind power and as he states it can't stand on it's own at the current energy prices.

 

[JLSeagull]

http://www.pickensplan.com/index.php

 

[cry22]

Thank you all for all the responses.

May I ask one last question?

NOt That I intend to get into wind turbine design, but just to satisfy my curiosity and possible do more investigation.

Just how do you specify a wind turbine? a nacelle, a support, a blade, a controller, safeties, etc.?
Is there a MASTERSPEC for wind turbines?
Is there a nationally recognized body for wind turbine design? Do wind turbines carry a UL listing? etc.

OK, I agree that it was more than ONE question.

Thank you

 

[FreddyNurk]

I would have thought, and admittedly we never struck such an issue, as our client at the time insisted on a particular brand of wind turbine, that for generating a specification for such equipment, you'd want to specify performance criteria, rather than writing a specification to a particular type / brand (Enercon's fancy shaped nacelle comes to mind).
I'd expect that firstly a measure of power output per turbine would come into it, means of controlling the output of the turbine, as in whether a set point can be supplied to the unit, and the unit matches the setpoint, and means of dealing with overspeed (i.e. turbine must be able to withstand wind speeds of XX prevalent in the installation site, and have means to disengage the generator to avoid damage). At some point you'd probably want to at least specify that you want a horizontal axis turbine, if thats what you're after.

You'd then want to look at solid capabilities, at least to ensure that you're not asking for something thats impossible to produce (such as 1kW setpoint increments with a +/- 1kW deviation for a 1MW generator). You'd also want to ask for things like cut in and cut out speed, so that you check that you can get output in the prevalent wind conditions for the site. No point in getting a spec that states minimum operational speed of 15m/s if all you get is 10m/s at the site.

All of the above is a guideline at best, and I'd probably suggest that there is far more involved than just a bare few points that I've given.

Having said all that, metengr makes a good point, most of the turbine manufacturers probably aren't that interested in responding to specifications that they're not easily able to meet at the moment, as I understand it, demand is still way above supply.

 

[JLSeagull]

I found this wind farm announcement from BP while searching for something unrelated.

http://www.bp.com/genericarticle.do?categoryId=4705&contentId=7048550