Who's responsible for locating Borings? 2

[Atomic25]

Who's responsibility is it to locate borings for a geotechnical investigation? The geotechnical engineer or the EOR? I see the EOR taking on liability he/she locates them.

I have a geotech who won't drill unless we provide recommended boring locations. We've never seen anyone require this in our office before. Does it sound fishy?

 

[cvg]

if boring location is critical - eg: location of bridge abutment or at centerline of existing dam, then the EOR should have the surveyor stake the location. If not, then provide guidance on desired approximate location and allow the geotech to field locate them.

ask the geotech why he is being so fussy

 

[Atomic25]

This isn't any special type of structure. We anticipate a typical 3 story spread footing building.

 

[fattdad]

The responsibility for the collection of data to be interpreted by an engineer is the responsibilty of the engineer that will be interpreting the data. If an engineer formulates his/her engineering recommendations on a data set that they have no ownership over, then if/when problems develop, they can hide in their hole and just whine that they were just doing what they were told to do.

If/when I get a request from an engineer to perform a geotechnical engineering study and the request includes a boring location plan, I ignore the boring location plan and make my own. I then call the engineer making the request and we discuss the two different programs. Sometimes, one of the borings is for a concern that is justified and I'll add it to my program, other times it just makes no sense. I will not formulate my geotechnical engineering recommendations on a program designed by others, unless they happen to get it right (at least from my perspective).

Next question: What defines an "engineer of record"? The reason that I ask is there is no doubt a civil engineer of record and a structural engineer of record and they may pinpoint a different set of borings, based on their experience and what they believe to be important. It's the responsibility of the geotechnical engineer to interpret the needs of both these engineering disiplines and provide a report that speaks to earthwork, foundations, pavements slabs on grade, etc.

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

 

[Atomic25]

Thank you, that is what I thought, but wanted to make sure I wasn't being unreasonable for protecting my own liability. Is there a geotechnical standard of practice or anything I can refer to to kick this guy in line?

At my firm, our civil engineers of record don't correspond with the geotechnical engineer who's writing the report....therefore, defining EOR is fairly simple for us.

 

[fattdad]

Is there a geotechnical standard of practice or anything I can refer to to kick this guy in line?

ASFE has alot of information on this topic. Their mission is loss prevention for the folks in the geosciences. For a geotechnical engineer to "require" a structural engineer to provide a boring location plan is just rediculous. I'd seriously consider calling another geotechnical engineer.

Is this job anywhere near Virginia - I'll help.

Good luck.

f-d

¡papá gordo ain’t no madre flaca!

 

[worldofmud]

may be worth having a quick check on the specification/BOQ submitted to the geotech and make sure a purely factual report was not requested.

 

[DarthSoilsGuy]

easy answer.

Zero borings. now you only have to pay for report preparation. maybe you can get more of a discount if you supply them a draft of the report to sign.

 

[msucog]

here's a different approach...did you tell them you wanted say 5 and only 5 borings to x-feet deep? if someone wants to "drive the bus" for explorations i do, then they should realize that i'm "neck down" in a sense from there on out. however, it sounds like there's nothing special to the exploration request and maybe they're being extremely picky for some reason. being picky is their right so ask them what the issue is. i would hope that they'd offer you an answer.
i'm picky about certain projects or project types and i gladly answer questions as to why i'm picky when someone asks. so ask the question to the geotech.

 

[GeoPaveTraffic]

I could see the geotechnical engineer wanting you to provide building corner stakes or something else for them to locate the borings based on. Or if you the agreement is that five borings will be drilled, one at each building corner and one in the middle, then the geotech needs somehting to locate the borings from. If you are going to have a surveyor go out and stake the building corners, then adding one more for the center of the building (with elevations) only makes everyones job easier.

However, if the geotech is saying "tell me where to drill" then as has been stated above, I would find another geotech.

 

[Mickney]

What ever happened to a project "team". In my career, I offer boring locations in the proposal. I include a copy of the boring locations, planned depths and any laboratory testing. I make this very clear and include a "blurb" that states that all project members review the boring locations and offer additional or alternate locations that they deem necessary.

As for in the field, it depends on the project. If it is a preliminary investigation where specific building locations are not known, I use a hand held GPS to establish and identify boring locations. Lat and Long. coordinates carry through with time and can translate to final project drawings. If the borings are specific to building corners or individual structures, I will ask the project surveyors to stake the borings or the structures.

 

[msucog]

mickney
"team" usually lasts until it goes to litigation.

you seem to have an assessment similar to mine of how it all works/should work. i have had instances where i tried to provide help to the team but due to the parties involved, the "team" mentality is left far behind...so you end up taking the "cover the butt" position and work from the neck down as directed.

and there are some jobs where "tell me where to drill" is pertinent...in those instances, i am merely obtaining the field data to provide to someone else for the assessment.