Why is the temperature rating of a sprinkler not addressed in NFPA 25?

[ContractorDave]

Why does chapter 5 not address whether or not a sprinkler head is the correct temperature for its location? They address orientation which assumes it is a sprinkler that has been replaced incorrectly. Why wouldn't this be the same assumption for a high temperature head found in an ordinary closet or a 155º found next to a unit heater?

Regards
D

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be
Thomas Paine

http://www.ykfireprevention.ca

 

[LCREP]

Light,

Because this is something the building owner is responsible to find and fix. See below from NFPA 25, 2011 Ed

The key sentence being ..."or other condition that affects the installation criteria of the system are identified" in 4.1.6.1 below.

4.1.6* Addressing Changes in Hazard.

4.1.6.1 Where changes in the occupancy, hazard, water sup- ply, storage commodity, storage arrangement, building modi- fication, or other condition that affects the installation criteria of the system are identified, the property owner or designated representative shall promptly take steps to evaluate the ad- equacy of the installed system in order to protect the building or hazard in question.

4.1.6.2 Where the evaluation reveals that the installed system is inadequate to protect the building or hazard in question, the property owner or designated representative shall make the re- quired corrections.

 

[cdafd]

Have to love 25

It is assumed also the system was install properly.

So what temp head Is found is assumed to be correct

 

[LCREP]

Yep,

Many people think if they get a clean inspection report from a contractor everything is OK. But many things can be wrong such as the change in storage configuration, change in commodity classification, etc that when a fire happens it is not controlled or extinguished.

Classic is a building that is build on speculation with an ESFR sprinkler system is installed since after all ESFR protects everything and is the best thing since sliced bread. They lease to a company that stores exposed plastics and guess what ESFR will not protect this product. Everyone is happy because the sprinkler contractors says it meets NFPA 25! Oh what fun trying to explain that one, those are always fun meetings to be at......NOT!

 

[ContractorDave]

LCREP, cdafd,

NFPA 25 seems worse than some religious documents for "interpretations". For the ESFR example, this is dealt with in 4.1.5 and it's explanation in the annex. Similarly regarding design, the inspector may assume that there are sprinklers in the elevator shaft or under the stage in the school, but 5.2.1.1.6, in the 'spirit of the intent of NFPA 25', absolves him from having to verify this.

Yet 5.2.1.1.1 states in part "..and shall be installed in the correct orientation.." This would appear to be treading on an installation deficiency as opposed to an inspection deficiency so my assumption is that NFPA 25 speculates that the sprinkler was incorrectly replaced after the installation was approved. Hence my question. Why wouldn't this apply to a sprinkler where the temperature rating is obviously wrong for where it is installed?

Regards
Dave



Regards
D

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be
Thomas Paine

http://www.ykfireprevention.ca

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Seems I spend half my effort trying to anticipate what a lawyer would do if I do A and not B.

All of our inspections are done from floor level, no ladder work, how can we see a head to determine its temperature when it is 45' in the air?

 

[ContractorDave]

"All of our inspections are done from floor level, no ladder work, how can we see a head to determine its temperature when it is 45' in the air?"

The Hand Book has this fun little ditty : A flashlight or binoculars can assist in the inspection of sprinklers (or
piping) in buildings with high ceilings. When other work is being done at the ceiling level
using ladders or lifts, personnel could take advantage of the opportunity of being closer to the
sprinklers and inspect the system.

The Hand Book is extremely useful for it's extra comments and FAQ sections but I do get mixed messages from it sometimes.

Regards
D

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be
Thomas Paine

http://www.ykfireprevention.ca

 

[ContractorDave]

To clarify, the Hand Book section in regards to the binoculars comment had me rolling my eyes somewhat....

Regards
D

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be
Thomas Paine

http://www.ykfireprevention.ca

 

[fireguy519345]

First page of our service report :..... This is not an engineering report, nor is it an evaluation of the design and installation of the sprinkler system" I don't remember who I stole that line from.

A recent issue of the NFPA Magazine had a good article on what the inspection is and is not.

 

[ContractorDave]

Hello fireguy

We have the same type of 'disclaimer': This report does not constitute an engineers review, and as such does not formally address installation concerns other than what may be noted under Comments and Recommendations

I'd still like to know why NFPA 25 chose to address orientation and not temperature rating when they appear to be the same issue, ie a sprinkler head that was likely installed incorrectly as a replacement by the owner or owners rep after the initial install.

Regards
D

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be
Thomas Paine

http://www.ykfireprevention.ca

 

[cdafd]

Orientation can be seen fairly easy

Head temp, you would have to get next to every head to see the temp

 

[cdafd]

And recalled heads???
Per 25

Are they required to be identified?

Are they required to be reported?

Do you have to tell a local ahj if you find problems?

 

[ContractorDave]

cdafd

In my estimation, if you can tell the orientation you are close enough in most cases to see the temperature rating. This assumes it is a glass bulb or is otherwise indicated on the frame of course.

"And recalled heads???
Per 25" - A.4.1.4 Recalled products should be replaced or remedied. I don't know why it's a should and not a shall.

"Do you have to tell a local ahj if you find problems?" - Well this is a conundrum isn't it. I believe I'm obligated to discuss it with the owner if in my professional opinion there are problems. If the building in question is some old warehouse out in the country and the owner appears not to care, that's probably where that get's left. If the building is a shopping mall with a day care, that's another ball of wax isn't it? If the owner doesn't care and doesn't appear willing to address problems, then I may feel obligated to mention this to the AHJ.



Regards
D

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be
Thomas Paine

http://www.ykfireprevention.ca

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

Attachment "Inspections Gone Wrong".

Going through some old folders I found this and seem to remember downloading it from the forum but I can't remember for sure.

In any event it's a good read something I have handed out to all of our inspectors so if the original uploader was you then thank you again.

 

[ContractorDave]

Thx SD2

I haven't seen this one and it will be going into my files. I recall something quite similar posted here though.

Regards
D

A thing moderately good is not so good as it ought to be
Thomas Paine

http://www.ykfireprevention.ca