Why we do what we do.. St Louis Warehouse Fire

[TravisMack]

I don't know if this building had a fire suppression system or not. However, just the ability to prevent stuff like this from happening is why I am honored to have been a part of this industry for nearly 3 decades.

https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v...dCwXy4vYMIjanSckglZcHf6nMfwGqD7NRs_E84MD4bc&e

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

"Follow" us at

https://www.facebook.com/pages/MFP-Design-LLC/92218417692

 

[cdafd]

They were pumping into a FDC

I forgot what was stored in the building.

 

[LCREP]

Here is one local to me over the weekend.

http://6abc.com/massive-inferno-at-west-chester-senior-community/2659822/

13R system, nursing/ assistant living facility, 120 patients evacuated, 2 still missing, took the roof off and several floors, went to 5 alarms, over 200 firefighters.

How does this stuff happen makes you wonder.....

 

[cdafd]

Still trying to figure out how it is an assisted living unit one day and the person is considered a nursing home patient the next, in the same room????

 

[LCREP]

Update 4 confirmed dead!

 

[SprinklerDesigner2]

In Georgia all assisted care and nursing home facilities have a full NFPA 13 system and EVERYTHING is fully sprinkled. We have what are called "personal care" homes that are 13R but those that live there must be fully ambulatory and of sound mind. I am not aware of a size limit but I've never seen a personal care home with more than a dozen patients max.

 

[stookeyfpe]

If you have a fire that included 150,000 citronella candles (approximately 9,400 pounds) as your fuel load you're going to lose the building if the automatic sprinkler design didn't consider this commodity. St Louis FD experienced a fire involving a Class IIIB liquid once the waxes were volatilized into a flammable vapor. Credit needs to be given to whoever issued the withdraw from the building order.

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...cle_79fd208b-89a3-5396-a6f6-6ace64dbe0ee.html

I've experienced a backdraft early in my career. Fortunately, we recognized the conditions about 30 seconds before the front wall of a two-story wood frame duplex ignited and blew the wood frame windows out of the framing, followed by the walls of the 2nd-floor portion of the structure.

 

[LCREP]

An update on the West Chester, Pa fire

http://ireader.olivesoftware.com/Ol...ashx?document=PHQP\2017\12\08&article=Ar02100

Investigators have determined that the fire that killed four residents of a West Chester senior-citizens home began on a rear patio outside the facility, leading investigators to explore whether the fire climbed an outside wall and spread quickly across the attic.
Charlene Hennessy, aspokeswoman for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), said Thursday that investigators have nailed down the patio as the starting point for the deadly blaze at Barclay Friends, but have yet to determine what triggered the fire itself, such as a burning cigarette, an electrical fault or something else.
If a cigarette were to blame, someone violated the rules at Barclay Friends. Smoking was not permitted by staff or residents anywhere on the facility grounds, including on the back patio, according to Colleen Ryan, a spokeswoman for the corporation that owns the home.
Hennessey said ATF engineers gingerly examined the blackened remains of the complex’s gutted South Wing on Wednesday and are to return next week as part of an effort to determine the precise starting agent and to trace the fire’s quick and deadly path through the two-story building. The agency, one among a phalanx of federal, state and local authorities examining the fire, hopes to announce more detailing finds next week, she said.

Arson and foul play are not suspected.
“This fire is purely accidental,” Hennessey said.
The fast-moving blaze, which became a fivealarmer in only a half-hour, killed Mildred Gad-de, 93, Theresa Malloy, 85, and Thomas Parker, 92, and his wife, Delores, 89, whom of smoke inhalation. The Chester County Coroner’s Office declined to say where their bodies were found or whether they had also suffered from burns.
In all, 133 residents — 50 from the section for those with memory issues and the remainder from adjacent one-story buildings offering skilled nursing care — fled into a cold, windy night of Nov. 16. Fifteen staffers were working at the time. Twenty-seven people were hospitalized.
The facility’s section for memory-impaired residents was hit hardest, with the fire devastating the roof that stretch over the large L-shaped building. Aerial photos show that the blaze did its worse damage in the quarters facing the patio, burning through the second floor in that area. The facility’s teal-colored exterior walls are made of wood and siding.
In an interview Thursday, Richard Skinner, an expert on fire protection, said the fast pace of the blaze suggested a failure in the fire-suppression system, perhaps a lack of water. Reporters at the scene immediately after the blaze noted that none of the evacuees appeared to have doused with water as they might have been had a sprinkler system had been triggered.
“You didn’t have the volume of water to get to the base of fire, is what I was thinking,” said Skinner, a former firefigthter who inspects New York City high-rises to see if their fire-protection systems are adequate.
John H. Morley Jr., another fire-protection expert, said he had examined the architectural and design documents for the facility. He said it had a “wet” sprinkler system — one in which the pipes were always water-filled — in its heated areas for residents and staff and a “dry” system in the unheated attic.
A dry system fills with water only when there is a fire; otherwise, water in the pipes could freeze and damage the system when temperatures drop. cmccoy@phillynews.com

 

[LCREP]

This part really worries me.....can we have a shut or partially shut sprinkler control valve, gee I hope not.


In an interview Thursday, Richard Skinner, an expert on fire protection, said the fast pace of the blaze suggested a failure in the fire-suppression system, perhaps a lack of water. Reporters at the scene immediately after the blaze noted that none of the evacuees appeared to have doused with water as they might have been had a sprinkler system had been triggered.

 

[cdafd]

Fire started exterior

Got into the attic, burning more roof deck than in the attic area?? at the start of the fire.

I still have not seen a attic save from an attic system, or an attic fire with an attic system installed.

Anyone have any save stories???????

 

[chicopee]

LCREP wrote"...can we have a shut or partially shut sprinkler control valve..." An interesting statement because, once upon a time, I attended a sprinkler adequacy course in OK and one demonstration was a significant partial closure of a street shutoff valve (I don't remember how many turns it took to partially close the valve) and yet when a 2" drain flow test was conducted at the sprinkler alarm check valve, the results showed adequate water supply for top sprinkler line. So yes, there are deceptions.

 

[LCREP]

As an insurance loss prevention representative in my 36 years I have conducted and or witnessed 1,000's of main drain tests. The ones you remember are when they go to 0 psi when you open the valve.....NOT a good day. It seemed they always happened at the end of the day or on a Friday. My company had a policy you had to resolve why the valve was closed and get it opened. Having the weekend impairment duty and handling sprinkler impairment calls was also fun.....not really....ah retirement a wonderful thing.

So am I surprised the valve was shut, not really, what really saddens me is 4 people are dead as a result of it. Hopefully we will hear why the valve was closed, believe me I have heard them all.

 

[cdafd]

Ok

There is no official statement that a fire sprinkler valve was shut??

Or is it in another report???

Sounds like speculation?

And if a person is wet from the sprinkler system, than they were in the room of the fire???

 

[Hoxton]

Should this be posted in 'Engineering failures and disasters'?