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Winding diagram 6/4 pole, 54 slots 1
- Thread starter EngRepair
- Start date
electricpete
Electrical
I assume some detective work on existing connection would help.
To me it is a puzzler.
With 54 slots, coils per group would be be 54/(3*6) = 3 coils per group for 6 pole or 54/(3*4)= 4.5 (fractional slot) coils per group for 4 pole.
You've already got a group of 5 coils in a group… that might work for the 4.5 fractional slot winding, but how's it going to fit in a 6-pole 3 coils per group?
I don't work in a shop so maybe one of the other guys will have a better idea.
=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?
To me it is a puzzler.
With 54 slots, coils per group would be be 54/(3*6) = 3 coils per group for 6 pole or 54/(3*4)= 4.5 (fractional slot) coils per group for 4 pole.
You've already got a group of 5 coils in a group… that might work for the 4.5 fractional slot winding, but how's it going to fit in a 6-pole 3 coils per group?
I don't work in a shop so maybe one of the other guys will have a better idea.
=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?
-
1
- #3
electricpete
Electrical
I'm just thinking out loud...
It seems that maybe you could use coil groupings of 3 2 1 3 repeated six times.
For the 6-pole configuration, you have 3 / 2-1 / 3 repeated six times for 18 groups of 3 coils each
For the 4-pole configuration, you have 3-2 / 1-3 repeated six times for 12 groups alternating 5 and 4 coils each.
But that's just a start. Of course it's meaningless unless the connections and lead tapoff points can be arranged to get the correct delta or 2-wye
It seems like it might be possible, but after a few minutes I gave up trying to draw it out.
Maybe someone else will chime in on this or a better idea.
=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?
It seems that maybe you could use coil groupings of 3 2 1 3 repeated six times.
For the 6-pole configuration, you have 3 / 2-1 / 3 repeated six times for 18 groups of 3 coils each
For the 4-pole configuration, you have 3-2 / 1-3 repeated six times for 12 groups alternating 5 and 4 coils each.
But that's just a start. Of course it's meaningless unless the connections and lead tapoff points can be arranged to get the correct delta or 2-wye
It seems like it might be possible, but after a few minutes I gave up trying to draw it out.
Maybe someone else will chime in on this or a better idea.
=====================================
(2B)+(2B)' ?
The OP's grouping is incorrect as it results in an a different number of coils per phase (21/15/18). Pete, on the other hand, has come up with grouping that would work (18/18/18), nice job Pete!!
However, this is of little help to the OP as a change in grouping requires a change in turns per coil. The OP needs to check the original winding data to find the fault.
It is possible to start from scratch and use Pete's grouping if a verification program is used to determine the correct turns per coil (via flux density analysis).
However, this is of little help to the OP as a change in grouping requires a change in turns per coil. The OP needs to check the original winding data to find the fault.
It is possible to start from scratch and use Pete's grouping if a verification program is used to determine the correct turns per coil (via flux density analysis).
Facepalm! I was so intrigued by the question of odd grouping (pretty rare in my experience) that I missed the elephant in the room. It is not possible to have a two speed, single winding motor with 6/4 poles. The pole/speed ratio is fixed at 2:1. 4/2 and 8/4 are possible, 6/4 is not.
It would appear the none of the OP's winding data is valid.
It would appear the none of the OP's winding data is valid.
Hi, Pete,
I think that 6/4 pole winding, 1D/2Y, 6 leads, can not be done this way. Try to draw it.
BTW, question was about particular winding arrangement: 1,2,5,4,3,2,1,1,5,3.
We have some incomplete info but it seems that such an arrangement is really existing, used by some manufacturers from China. Unfortunately, I have not tried to recreate this pattern because of two reasons:
- this is very demanding and time consuming work even if a suitable software is used, and
- there are several alternative, winding diagrams (already tested) and only task is to select one that fits to recorded data (turns per coil, pitch and core/slot dimensions). We have our own very powerful tool that helps to do that. More info on this software you can find on our site.
rhacher
I can not agree with any of your claims. It is about PAM winding (not Dahlander) and speed ratio could be other then 2/1 , for example 3/2, 4/3, 4/1, 3/1 etc. Also, there is another kind of two speed-one winding motors, so called PPM.
[link ][/url]
I think that 6/4 pole winding, 1D/2Y, 6 leads, can not be done this way. Try to draw it.
BTW, question was about particular winding arrangement: 1,2,5,4,3,2,1,1,5,3.
We have some incomplete info but it seems that such an arrangement is really existing, used by some manufacturers from China. Unfortunately, I have not tried to recreate this pattern because of two reasons:
- this is very demanding and time consuming work even if a suitable software is used, and
- there are several alternative, winding diagrams (already tested) and only task is to select one that fits to recorded data (turns per coil, pitch and core/slot dimensions). We have our own very powerful tool that helps to do that. More info on this software you can find on our site.
rhacher
I can not agree with any of your claims. It is about PAM winding (not Dahlander) and speed ratio could be other then 2/1 , for example 3/2, 4/3, 4/1, 3/1 etc. Also, there is another kind of two speed-one winding motors, so called PPM.
[link ][/url]
- Moderator
- #9
Zlatkodo is correct, the OP's description could apply to a PAM motor. This type of motor can have a speed ratio different than 2:1, they often have strange coil grouping, and the phase sequencing is not A-B-C (repeated). These are very rare in my experience but they do exist.
EASA has two connection diagrams available for a 6/4 pole, 54 slot, 1D/2Y PAM motor but they are for connections with different grouping and pitch than the OP's connection. This type of connection is quite complicated but, if the OP has a specific question he should go ahead and ask as someone here may be able to help.
EASA has two connection diagrams available for a 6/4 pole, 54 slot, 1D/2Y PAM motor but they are for connections with different grouping and pitch than the OP's connection. This type of connection is quite complicated but, if the OP has a specific question he should go ahead and ask as someone here may be able to help.
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