Working for a contract service 4

[davidinindy]

A contract engineering company has a position I'm interested in. I've interviewed with the placement service, and am interviewing with the actual company next week. They provide vacation based on hours worked, and paid holidays, but insurance is optional, and the employee pays all of it, although thru a groupl plan, which isn't as bad as going out on my own and getting it. The wage they are offering is barely enough to break even to what i make now (less than I'd like also) once I have to pay my families own health insurance. It's also a bit further to drive into the city, versus away from the city. I'm pretty sure once I interview, I'll get the offer. My question is, in your experience, how much room do these service leave for negotiation? A couple more dollars an hour would be enough for me. Are they willing to take a little less off the top in order to get the person placed that the company wants? Another thought is the company could "buy me out" and hire me as a permenant employee. They have "want" ads on their website, so evidently are hiring on their own also.
I really want this job, as I think there's more of a future there than where I am now.
Any advice folks?

David

 

[TheTick]

Before you take insurance through your contract agency, go to an insurance agent and get quotes for your own. You'll have the advantage of staying insured if you continue to contract through other agencies.

I went through my personal agent and got a major medical policy for my family for less than $350/month. High deductible ($5k/person, $10K max family per year), but with some good options. Included a HSA (Health Savings Account), which means tax-deductible deposits which are available forever until spent. Also, policy covered 100% of everything after deductible (it's the 80-20 that can break you if you lose a leg or get a tumor).

 

[KENAT]

I negotiated up a few dollars when I was working for a contract service in 05/06. However, this was at least in part because the guy that would be my manager at the company really wanted me so basically told the contract place to increase my rate.

As Tick says, double check on the private insurance thing, it's not always as bad as you think. We looked into it a few years ago and were surprised.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[photoengineer]

David,

People generally choose "job shopping" because of significantly higher income. Earning 20% - 40% more as a job shopper is very common and the only reason to do it. So if you crunched the numbers and aren't impressed, don't take the job! (Keep in mind that frequently places that are hiring job shoppers have a ton of short term work. You're highly likely to get overtime.)

If you want more money, ask for it. The contract house will then ask the company for more money. The decision will lie with the company you'll be working for rather than the contract house.

 

[debodine]

Like a lot of financial decisions, also consider risk/reward. If you don't get a significant increase in take home pay from a contract, it is rarely worth it unless there is some special experience you intend to obtain while on the contract.

The risk you always have to keep in mind is any hiccup in the company cash flow or financial numbers and you are on your way out the door.

Also remember that being shown the door as a contractor rarely is a personal thing but is almost always an impersonal business decision. So if you take the risk and they let you go much more quickly than you were led to believe, it is still not likely that you were deficient but the company financial picture changed. (Unless of course you are an incompetent jerk and they only discovered this after you reported in Joking...)

The bottom line for me (I did contract engineering for ten years at various locations) was if I was going to take the risk such as move to unfamiliar area, pay my own insurance, accept that at any time I could instantly be shown the door, then I expected to do a lot better than just break even before I signed on.

I hope this helps...

 

[ColonelSanders83]

When I went from salaried to contract (self employed using a 1099), I took a 50% pay increase from my equivalent salaried hourly rate. Anything less than that and it really would not have been worth my while. As it stands I went back to salaried at yet another company when the bottom fell out of the oil market, but I only took a 22% hit in pay.

Quickest way to move up is to move

Always remember, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it!

 

[PeterStock]

When I left a direct position after I got my degree (and the company I worked for had a hiring and promotion freeze), I more than doubled my hourly rate. That was in the late 80's though and included some effect due to the degree. Breaking even, I would not consider it unless you had a good sense you would be made a good offer as a direct (at least what you are making now plus something for the additional time and stress of commuting. I would definatly ask for the amount you need to pay for the insureance at least.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[MintJulep]

Go for the interview.

If you really do wow the guy and get an offer you will be in a position to negotiate from a position of relative strength.

If you don't like the numbers, don't take the job.

Alternately, if they really are hiring direct, apply direct - BEFORE you interview through the contract company. The hiring company probably has some limitations on direct hiring candidates that the contract company presents.

 

[PeterStock]

Just check on if the contract agency submitted you before you try on your own for a direct job. I lost out on one job I was interested where that occured, as the company was not sure what I wanted. I wanted a direct job, but I was not working and would have taken it either way. At times, just the floating of your name by the contract agency can keep you from getting in direct, or thru a different agency.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[davidinindy]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm shopping around for insurance, and will most likely "Wow" the employer, so probably will ask for a little more money also.
This site is great.

David

 

[KENAT]

Be very careful with Mints suggestion, it may depend on what, if any, agreement you already have in place with the agency and what agreement the agency has in place with the company. However, typcially once an agency is involved, they want their pound of flest.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[ewh]

I agree with KENAT. If you got the lead through the contract agency, they will want their cut, and will usually fight to get it. The client may also take their side on the issue.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[PeterStock]

Best bet if you get an offer that is contract to direct is to assume it is just a contract. Only take the job if it is worth leaving the one you have. Include in that calculation a month or two (bare minimum in this economy) without work at the end of the contract. This means that to make it worth while it should pay a good deal more than you are making now. A couple of bucks an hour is not enough in my opinion. Unless you are unhappy where you are.

Peter Stockhausen
Senior Design Analyst (Checker)
Infotech Aerospace Services

http://www.infotechpr.net

 

[davidinindy]

So, my interview is today. They agreed to meet me after hours, which I think is a good thing. Shows they show more than a passing interest in me. I think I will "Wow" them, as the product they produce is very similar to what I have experience with. I've got a kick-butt portfolio with me. I'll take all of your suggestions to heart. Thanks!

David

 

[davidinindy]

Interview went well. I've got all the skills and experience he is looking for. Looking forward to hearing from the contract service today. Noticed when looking back at the initial email it said they were wanting to pay in the $xx.xx RANGE. I'm betting that's the low end of the range. I think I'll likely get the $$ I want, and maybe even try for a week paid for my kids spring break.
He also indicated he is looking for a full time employee, but used the service to weed thru the hundreds of resumes for him. It'll be 3 months contract, then permenent if it goes well.

David

 

[davidinindy]

Well, I got the offer this morning, and made my counteroffer quoting her word "payrange". She wasn't happy, but said she'd talk to her client. Haven't heard back from her, and I'm sure she's gone home for the day by now. The client was leaving town today, so hopefully, she's just having trouble getting hold of him. Kindof nervous. I've always job hunted because I was out of work, so this is a new experience for me.

David

 

[davidinindy]

Well, I lost out... They gave the position to someone else. Kicking myself now.

David

 

[davidinindy]

I'm going to call the employer direct Monday. I think some things got lost in translation with the staffing company. I expected a call giving more specifics of how long the contract was expected to last, benefits and such of the company, etc... Am pretty upset about how everything ended up going down.

David

 

[pmover]

while not fully aware of the communications involved . . .

naw . . . do not dwell on the matter further . . . i would not recommend calling. it is a risk that is taken when requesting for more $.

are you sure they selected another individual?

believe me, there are other opportunities out there and you need not dwell on your decisions . . . only learn from them.

lastly, listen & trust your instincts! they will benefit you greatly with future decisions.

good luck!
-pmover

 

[ajack1]

I really don’t see the point in going back to them.

If they wanted you enough, they would have paid what you wanted.

If you wanted the job enough, you would have taken their offer.

That is how negotiations work.