Working for one company after graduation (for about 30 years) vs changing jobs every 3-5 years ?? 2

[youngEngineer818]

Hello All,
I am a recent graduate who started working as a mechanical engineer in a pressure vessel manufacturing company. Its been about a year now and about a week ago, I noticed two people retired. They worked at this company for 35 years. Now, I am thinking If I should stay at this company, work my a$$ off and get a higher position in the company and get big raise OR I should change the company after 3 years. Because most people say if you want a big raise in salary (my initial is too low according to the research I did online for new graduate engineers). My question is: would you stay at one company or switch jobs? what are the advantages of what you would do? Will I get big raise If I work super hard and know the products at this company?

Thanks
New Engineer

 

[youngEngineer818]

Most people say if you want a big raise in salary you have to switch the company.

 

[GregLocock]

"Will I get big raise If I work super hard and know the products at this company?" Not automatically.

Every big jump in pay has been when I changed jobs, most spectacularly when I left one job, worked elsewhere for 3 1/2 years, and came back to my old desk at my old job for a 60% pay rise compared with when I left.

On the other hand, if you hang around long enough at a company and you are any good you will drift upwards in seniority and into management in a fairly painless fashion if that is your desire.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[mtu1972]

Depends on the company. I had 7 jobs over 40 years but the two best jobs (and longest tenures) were where I got the best raises and benefits. Leaving both of those jobs were not my choice. Each were bought by foreign companies, one was shut down and the other had it's engineering department eliminated.

The other companies were consulting firms and were somewhat less stable and did not have as good benefits.

gjc

 

[KENAT]

Well, within reason you should be working your proverbial A$$ off anyway if you want to advance yourself above average.

I once got around 19% raise without changing employer, so the 'only get a good raise by changing employer' is a truism. This was associated with having gone from a useless new hire to being moderately productive after about 20 months (and there had been 2 much smaller pay raises within that 20 months). I got some other raises well above the typical 2-3% at that employer too. At my current employer I've had a couple of fairly large raises and several smaller ones (plus one temporary pay cut). So it depends - most would probably say this was not typical.

Typically above average pay raises are associated with things like taking on more responsibility; really being a 'star performer' (at least compared to your peers); promotion; fear that you may follow your former boss who just left, getting a new boss who notices your pay is a lot lower than some of your peers...

There is more to job/career satisfaction than just the $ - how is your current employer on other issues? Not just other aspects of compensation but is it interesting work, convenient commute, nice place to live...

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[Ron]

What Greg said!

 

[IRstuff]

Sure, you can change jobs every 3 yrs and get salary bumps, but when layoffs occur, will you be sufficiently entrained in a company and have sufficient chops to get above the layoff line? That said, EVERY company is different, and EVERY manager is different, so there's no telling how they will react to a downturn. We just went through a pretty horrible recession that lasted about 7 yrs, and your indispensability could have made a difference between staying or getting shown out the door. These are all trade-offs that must be made for every person uniquely and in context. What's your risk aversion? Do you have a family to support? I've had to start new jobs 4 times in the last 39 yrs (yikes!) and I think I can match most salaries, even though I've been getting raises that are only slightly above inflation.

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[MikeHalloran]

When I got out of school, there were a few companies where one might reasonably expect to work for an entire career.

Those companies are gone. I thought there were none left.

... By which, I don't mean that you should stay in one place forever, just because you have found a place where that now seems possible. If the demand for pressure vessels shrinks for some unseen reason, or if substantially lower cost competitors appear, you may be out of work with a skill set that's only in demand in China, and for a substantially reduced wage.

You can't predict the future any better than I can.

You want to develop a personal skill set that's transferable to other industries without a big learning curve. That may be possible by expanding the scope of what you do right there, over a period of years, or you may have to start over somewhere else.

Don't be in a hurry to change jobs unless you see writing on the wall. HR weenies still think ill of you for 'job hopping', while at the same time failing to invest in development of the people they already have on hand, preferring to steal people from competitors, and discard good people like yesterday's trash at the slightest downturn.








Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[BrianPetersen]

After coming to this country, my dad had 4 or 5 jobs in 7 years (this was in the 1950s) then stayed at the last job for 28 years until he retired.

After graduation, for myself, stayed at the first job 3 years, next one 7 years, next one 8 years, current one (in which I no longer have a boss) 6 years and counting and I'm pretty sure this will be the last one before retirement.

So it all depends. Don't forget that changing jobs too quickly doesn't look good on your resume.

 

[moltenmetal]

Changing jobs every 3-5 years looks fine on a resume as long as it doesn't look too much like a pattern. Changing jobs every 1-2 years doesn't look good on a resume, but in some industries it is virtually inevitable and viewed as the norm so it's not a rule carved in stone.

Changing jobs is often, but not always, the only way a young engineer can keep on the approximately 10% of INITIAL SALARY plus inflation salary trajectory that they should expect to receive in raises for the first ten years of their career, i.e. if you review the salary data, the salary of an engineer with 10-15 yrs of experience is approximately double that of a fresh grad with a roughly linear track between those two points. Salary is nearly flat versus years of experience after that in categories of constant responsibility. On average, after 10-15 years, raises are generally at cost of living unless accompanied by an increase in responsibility. And as your engineering economics course should have impressed upon you, the early money is the most important.

Staying on that salary track is important, but it is even more important to be doing interesting work for an employer who treats you with respect. For young engineers it's still a buyer's market, so be careful ditching your first job out of school too soon.

 

[ewh]

Mike brings up a very important point... regardless of how long you stay with an employer, you need to develop a personal skill set which includes skills that are readily transferable to other industries. This will give you the freedom to change jobs/relocate if and when the time comes that you need/want to.

"Know the rules well, so you can break them effectively."
-Dalai Lama XIV

 

[weldstan]

In today's world, your chances of working 30+ years for one company after graduation are highly remote. Personally, I like change, especially early in the career because additional, different experiences are gained. I have been with the same company for the past 19 years but I took that job at 49 years old - now I'm ready for retirement.

 

[EdStainless]

My first few job changes were not voluntary, but the last couple have been.
I have managed nice pay bumps when changing jobs, even when I stayed with the same company.
Building skills and taking on new positions/opportunities is how you prove your worth.
Let's see, 7yr, 6mo (ouch, and it was my 'dream job'), 6yr, 6yr, 14yr.....
This last one proves the point that was made earlier. My employer was acquired. In the process I was moved into a position of more responsibility and higher pay, because I gained and DEMONSTRATED skills.
Even that first 7yr stretch out of college was working three distinctly different positions within one firm.

Keep your eyes open, look for new things to learn. If you see yourself running out of opportunities where you are then start looking around. These days it is less about the up front $$ and more about benefits (max out the 401k, in 40 years you be glad) and medium-term potential.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube

 

[1gibson]

When you stop learning, that is when you look for a new job. Could be one year, could be ten. You don't just show up for a paycheck, this is your career, think of it as training. Wouldn't it be a wasted opportunity if you left when there were still things to learn?

As far as salary goes, speak privately with your boss, but be open about it. "My market research says I'm underpaid, I know that I provide more value than this. If you agree then what can you do to change that, if you don't agree then what can I do to change that?"

 

[2dye4]

Change jobs whenever it strikes you.

I have several friends who got comfortable at a company and stayed the whole duration, now their skills are
limited. They know what goes on at their company really well but they are older and have little leverage
to move into jobs with different skill sets.

 

[JedClampett]

“Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face.”-Mike Tyson
You can plan to stay at one company for 30 years, and so many things can happen. It can go bankrupt, it can offshore your work, you could fall in love with someone in a different city, they can ask you to transfer to an undesirable location, you might have to get out of town because the sheriff is after you, etc.
If you feel they're taking advantage of you, salary wise, it might be time to look around. Or maybe you like the people or work or climate or commute enough to stick with it. There's no ironclad way to plan a career. Things happen in life and work. Roll with them.

 

[Latexman]

Does your company have a pension? Is the company in good financial shape? The answer to these questions would impact the assessment.

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[zdas04]

The consensus above is that it doesn't much matter if you stay or change. I don't think I agree with that. You are focusing your career on pressure vessel manufacturing. I have a hard time thinking of a field that is more subject to softening sales when capital starts getting tight. When sales get soft, jobs start getting shaky. Now if you have 10 engineers that are all able to fill any of the needs in the shop, one with 20 years, one with 10 years, and the rest with less than 5, it is pretty rare for the 20 or 10 year guy to be the first out the door. So now you ave a 3-year guy with skills that are valuable if anyone has capital, but no one does. He's faced with entering a new field (that may not value his vast experience with the BPVC) or waiting for someone to need him in an industry that is dominated by family-owned operations.

There have been a number of the "why should I show loyalty when the company doesn't" kind of attitude guys starting threads on eng-tips.com that begin with "I've been out of work for 18 months and ...". I started my first job out of college with the idea that I would retire from them unless they threw me out. That attitude saw me through 2 major industry-wide layoffs and a dozen economic crunches. I might have made a touch more money job-jumping, but I would have spent at least part of 1986 wondering if I was in the right industry and over a 23 year career my salary changed by nearly an order of magnitude (comparing year 1 to year 23 my salary increased at an APR of over 9%). without a single missed payday. I had my years of 2% raises, and I had some years with markedly better raises (year 3 was nearly 100%); I had years without bonuses, and years with bonuses. I like my choice to stick. Others have been happy with their choice to jump.

David Simpson, PE
MuleShoe Engineering

In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual. Galileo Galilei, Italian Physicist

 

[robertib]

In my opinion, there are 2 primary questions to ask yourself.

Do you enjoy working at your current job?
Do you feel that you have enough money after expenses for a reasonable home life?

If the answer to the first question is no, examine the reasons why you don't enjoy the job - is it the job, the environment, etc. See if you can change what you don't like, and if you can't, then start looking for a new job.

Then, if you don't have the money for a reasonable home life, see if you can talk to your boss about how you can improve your value to the company to earn a better pay. Only then would I start looking for a new job.

 

[Lion06]

There is much more to your professional life than just salary. I know it's the single biggest consideration for most people, but there are many other things to consider.

I was very lucky to land my "dream job" out of college. I've been with the same company for 9 years. I've received a total increase of about 50% over the 9 years. This is only about 5% per year, but there were 3 years of no salary increase (and a brief period of salary decrease during the worst of the financial crisis), so most of my actual increases have been on the order of 7-10%. That's not earth shattering by any stretch, but four 8% increases is just about as good as a single 30% increase and three 2% increases.

There are other perks to being an established and known value to your employer. I'm lucky enough to be at a place that really is like a family to me. I have an awesome boss and the best work environment I could imagine. I have a great deal of flexibility and autonomy. I couldn't imagine leaving where I'm at by choice unless I were offered a completely unrealistic salary.