WPS and WQR Section IX Interpretation

[LNG4ALL]

My question is regarding the essential variables of a WPS. B.31.1 is applicable code. The company has a WPS for 6010 downhill root and 7018 uphill out. The skilled welder has qualified to this procedure. The company would like to run a 6010 downhill out procedure for some upcoming work. It is my understanding that weld progression is non essential on the WPS and that qualifying on F-4 group electrodes will also qualify the welder for F-3 group. My confusion is wether a NEW WPS needs to be written and qualified for 6010 downhill out by the company or if a WPS previously qualified by the welders previous employer is suiable. Thickness range, base metal groups are the same, test position is /was 6G in all instances. I understand a new WQR will be needed in either case. Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

 

[weldtek]

Off the top of my head, depending on the base metal you plan to weld there may be an issue with tensile strength. More than likely your PQR demonstrated that, other than the root, using a 70 ksi electrode, min tensile strength met 70 ksi, but, now you want to complete the joint with a 60 ksi eletrode.
Use of E7010 electrode may enable you to address this.

 

[Kiwi2671]

LNG4ALL,
A new WPS will be required.
You are correct that progression is a non essential variable for WPS but unfortunately qualifying on F 4 does not qualify for F 3 - that is applicable to both WPS and WPQ,
Regards,
Kiwi

 

[Duwe6]

Kiwi276 is 'off' on this one, but not much.

A new WPS must be written to allow 100% downhill progression. As this is not a WPS Essential Variable, a new PQR is not required.

F4 on Performance [welder] Quals does qualify for F3. BUT the welders will have to weld out a 100% Downhill coupon to be qualified to utilize your new "100% 6010, 100% Downhill" WPS. Your guys are only tested doing 2 beads downhill, and only qualified for 2-times the test = twice the thickness actually deposited during the test. Almost certainly, not enough weld deposit to weld out your pipe.

 

[Mr168]

One correction to Duwe6 - a new PQR may be required if the existing PQR does not support the base metal/deposit thickness requirements for a stand-alone 6010 procedure, which they often don't when being qualified for root pass welding only as part of an existing procedure.

To answer one part of the original poster's comment that was seemingly glanced over - NO, you cannot take a WPS from the welder's previous employer and use it as your own. You will need PQR's and WPS's qualified by your own organization.

 

[Kiwi2671]

Duwe6,
Please refer QW 200.4.
"When following a WPS that has more than one welding
process, filler metal, or set of variables, each process, filler
metal, or set of variables may be used individually or in
different combinations, provided....."
"(2) the base metal and deposited weld metal thickness
limits of QW-451 for each process, filler metal, or set of
variables are applied"

The original PQR may be used to write a full 6010 (F3) WPS however it will only be valid for 2 x "t" (basically 2 x thickness of root run).
I stand by my statement that a new WPS (and PQR) is required.

My comment on F4 not qualifying for F3 was not really written / explained correctly.
F4 (with or without backing)only qualifies for F3 with backing so an F4 qualification does not qualify for F3 root runs which are the predominant uses of an F3 electrode.

Regards,
Kiwi

 

[LNG4ALL]

Thank you all for your responses.

I iwll need a new WPS PQR and WQR. Please help to clarify one last item for me. In what circumstances may the F grouping qualification be used to vary electrode? If a particular welder passes a WQR with F4 they are then qualified to weld the same process on any other approved procedure with typical limiting factors utilizing any of teh back qualified electrodes?

Thanks for the help!

All this to keep the pipe liners happy!

 

[Kiwi2671]

LNG4ALL,
See Table QW 433 for F number limitations,
Regards,
Kiwi

 

[Duwe6]

LNG4ALL, the short answer is yes, for welder performance, F4 qualifies for F3, 2, &1 -- basically all c/s SMAW 'stick' electrodes.

 

[Kiwi2671]

Duwe6,
You need to qualify your statement to avoid any misunderstanding.
Qualify with F4 and you qualify for F3, F2 and F1 only with backing.
Basically the way I read your post is if a welder performs a pipe weld F4 coupon he can then weld an F3 production weld.

LNG4all,
Do an F3 / F4 PQR on heavy wall pipe with half the pipe F3 and half F4.
This will then enable you to then write a WPS with either F3/F4 or a full F3 WPS,
Regards,
Kiwi