Young Structural Engineer - Salary Expectations 3

[GerryBertier]

I'm coming up to my 2nd year review at an engineering firm and I'm wondering what my market value and compensation should be at.

After my first year, I received great reviews from the partners and they said I was the future of the company, had a great work ethic and I took on much more responsibility than other engineers with my experience.

Here is more info

- Small Company < 25 employees
- MEPS Consulting Firm
- Located in an expensive area

- I've had 2 summer internships with the company
- Hired full time after graduation
- I've passed my FE in college
- I'm a LEED AP
- My degree is BS Architectural Engineering

- First line of Contact w/ my architects (clients)
- Attend some meetings/site visits alone
- Maintain all of my relationships with my architects without losing work


At my one-year review, I explained my wanting of being compensated in line with the work load and responsibly they have become to expect from me, especially in respect to other engineers of my same experience. They explained the "responsibility" was for my "own good and experience". In response to the "average" salary from ASCE, they responded "what about all of your peers whom don't even have a job in their field".


I know I'm in a great place - I have a job which I love. I'm gaining the experience needed to sit for the SE. But I still feel like I'm being "taken advantage" of.


I need some advice on how to get my mind right - and put these worries behind me.

Thanks in advance. Feel free to ask anymore questions.

 

[KENAT]

I felt similar after about 18+ months.

Then out of the blue a couple months later I got a massive pay raise, so you never know.

Sadly, I can't guarantee the same for you.

You could, and perhaps should, start looking elsewhere but your experience is still on the low side.

Sorry I can't be more helpful.

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[GregLocock]

Notwithstanding Kenat's note you'll typically see massive jumps in salary only if you move between companies. Personally I'd be inclined to stick with it for another year, two years at one company is a reasonable first stint. Your first 5 years out of college should see some pretty hefty increases on average, as you go from blotting paper/office boy to useful engineer (my pay almost /doubled/ from OKish to pretty damn reasonable in that time period). For some reason American firms seem to think they can ignore this, not too sure why.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[Lion06]

Gerry,

Sadly, that seems to be the prevailing thought process (especially right now). I have 5 years experience, recently passed the PE, have a lot of responsibility (even for 5 years of experience) and workload (almost always 55+ hours). I always do whatever I need to to make sure the work is done and correct, that I've explored all avenues, and have meaningful dialogues with my bosses. My opinion is respected even by the principals, but my salary lags far behind what it should (< $55k). I'm expecting a pretty big raise coming up very soon, but we'll see.

That being said, I stay where I am (despite the pay) because the work environment is so appealing. I get to work on really cool projects with top tier architects. My input and opinion are respected by everyone I work with. I have a lot of autonomy and freedom. The projects are always interesting and varied. There are NO office politics, no whiners, and people generally help out where they can.

I've often considered moving on, but I'm honestly a little scared about what a job at another firm would be like. My boss is a good engineer, but a better person and boss. The firm is caring and genuinely treats the employees like family. I recently went through a life-changing experience and my company was extremely supportive and is even allowing an extremely flexible working environment for me for the foreseeable future.

That kind of environment makes it difficult to leave, regardless of pay.

If I asked for a raise and I was told, "you should feel lucky to have a job".......... well, that would piss me off. Maybe a, "we're not in a position to give raises right now", but the response given really just sucks. It's like saying, we don't care how good you are doing, we're not going to pay you more because we don't have to. I know there are some here that will say that's business, but that's not the type of company I want to work for.

 

[KENAT]

Thinking about it, in fairness, my big raise at about 20 months wasn't all due to my awesome technical aptitude, dashing good looks and charismatic personality.

The Engineering director left, and I think they were concerned several of his 'new hires' were going to follow and we were in the middles of some significant projects where they wanted continuity.

Still, goes to show you don't know what's around the corner.

Tend to agree with Greg about wanting to get over the 2 year mark, though I'm not sure I can back it up with any empirical evidence.

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[GregLocock]

This baffles me. Why would any company not just hire the disaffected engineers with 3-5 years experience? Give them a 30% bump over a noob and expect them to hit the ground running. They are still going to be charged to the project as a junior engineer, but you'd easily get 30% more useful work out of them.






Cheers

Greg Locock


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[Lion06]

I'm 5 years in, have a fair amount of responsibility (I take small projects from start to finish with minimal oversight, perform site surveys and evaluations with minimal oversight, and contribute in a meaningful way to much larger projects), and I only make 12% more than I started at 5 years ago.

 

[GregLocock]

Well let's see. You've been unable to make your case that you should get a further pay rise, and you are unwilling to leave.

Option 3 eludes me at this point, but alcohol may be involved.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[Hurricanes]

Hmm, I am four years in and earn 40% more than when I first started, without changing companies, departments or anything like that. It's not like I started out on small coin either.

I am in Australia though, and just looking though the recent salary threads seems like the pay here is much better than the USA.

 

[shacked]

Gerry, I guess you have to take into consideration how well your company is doing in our current economy. Like someone already noted I would also be very pissed if they told me that I was lucky to just have a job.

It seems to me that all to many business leaders/owners are using our current economic situation as an excuse to increase their companies efficiency and income without increasing overhead or pay raises for their employees.

Well, have you heard the old saying, that you can't get blood out of a turnip?

 

[csd72]

In the first couple of years of your career you should be focused on experience. You may think that you are highly competent now but you may not look back and view it that way in five years time. You also probably underestimate how much background work gets done for you before, during and after your involvement.

You definately should be making more that just inflationary rises, but I would encourage you to bite the bullet and focus on getting the best experience possible in the first couple of years. Make careful record of your experience and lessons learnt and this will put you in a good bargaining position when you choose to move on.

Certainly dont wait around as long as lion06 apparently has.

 

[Lion06]

In the interest of partial disclosure, this is PAStructuralPE (formerly StructuralEIT).

 

[csd72]

SEIT,

Is one alias not good enough? Does it help that your multiple personalities are able to argue with each other on a public forum?

 

[Lion06]

I wanted to change it from EIT, but StructuralPE was taken. I was getting a hard time for the length of PAStructuralPE, so I shortened it up.

 

[B16A2]

Post forum addiction, look it up.

To the OP, I would be gracious with your employer if they mentored and trained you (and hopefully continue to do so). I wouldn't expect a significant raise until at least year 3, if still feel jipped, then consider moving. Do it while you're young!

 

[MiketheEngineer]

Kind of agree w/b16a2 -- hang in there for at least 3 or 4years or until you get your PE...

 

[GerryBertier]

I'm surprised from the large response. Thank you for your opinions. It is a great help to hear advice from many whom have been in my similar situation.

@ KENAT - I will continue to work hard in hope for market value in the future.

@ Greg - I did "hit the ground running" when I started after graduation. I had two summer internships with the company previous to full time employment. They knew what they were getting. I already had a 6 month introduction to typical procedures, everyday coordination and the exact type of consulting they provided. My only "real world" experience has been with this company. While, I love the work and the people - grass does tend to look greener, but I'm afraid of it turning out not to be.

@StructuralEIT (I have been lurking around here for awhile now) - Most of my projects are "hand-holding". Low rise commercial is exciting to me because of the large quantity of projects. I'm always looking at something different, the shop drawing stage doesn't last too long and I have multiple projects and architects I work with each day. The part I don't like is that my learning and attention from my SEOR is rapidly decreasing. Since I've displayed competence, my boss tends to leave me alone and I feel like I have to "beg" in order to get any help or direction. I always tell him that just need to be "pointed down the right path", but getting even that has been a struggle.

@shacked - My company recently laid off 33% of the engineers/designers. The structural department has been super busy since I've been there, but the other specialties have been sitting around wanting more work. Many of the architects now only use us for structural only - rather than all of the specialties. This is the reason why I haven't received a bonus since 2009. Even though my projects are successful, I feel like I'm only subsidizing the other departments to surf the internet. This is a huge reason for me asking for more compensation. I want my successes to pay some dividends. I work hard to make money.

@csd - You have a point I do understand. But my problem is that I only have a couple of others to compare my work too. These peers are my measuring stick. They have also maintained their jobs with the company, which leads me to believe their work has been acceptable. I'm not trying to be compensated in line with an engineer w/ their SE/PE or 5 years experience. I'm asking to be compensated for an engineer with 2 years experience per Go Structural and ASCE.

B16 & Mike - My boss has trained and mentored me from day one. He was a great teacher, sadly he hasn't been doing much teaching lately as I've proven I'm able to get projects out in an efficient matter, while problems with other engineer's work keep him busy. Experience will always come before compensation. I will not leave my job solely based on compensation. I want to continue to work in Architectural Consulting, no matter what.

I like to bowl too. But just because I like bowling, doesn't mean I don't want to keep score.

 

[Patgeotech]

GerryBertier,

1) Reading your thread it sounds to me that your good work ethic has been recognised - you were not retrenched and that is saying something in this day and age.
2) Although your training has slowed down - due you still talk to your boss about other aspects in your work life - does he know how you feel?
3) Stick it out for another year or so and get more experoence and get to know your clients better - while at the same time, see what else could be on offer with another company
4) Don't just go to another company because of money - the work 'environment' aspect mentioned above is more important. A good working environment is a healthy working mind and a bad enviromnment means it is time to move along to the next challenge and perhaps to a better boss.
5)Good luck - we all went through this in out engineering lives.

 

[jtx]

I tend to agree with everyone here. Stick it out for awhile and see where that takes you. Get your PE/SE and by that time you should have a good feel for where you want your career to go. If it is time to move on, then at least you would be a bit more marketable with a license in your hands.

However, allow me to add a different perspective on things with my experience...

Just about 5yrs in with the same company since college (started in the low 40s, just broke 50k this year). Will be taking the PE exam on Friday (2nd time unfortunately). The company that I work for does mostly municipal wastewater work. When I started, I was expected to "hit the ground running" as well. Unfortunatly I did not have a true mentor in the company. Just people who told me what to do and how to do it. My personal experience here has been very poor and it is a struggle to come in to work and get things done everyday. My goal in my professional life was to work on projects much like you and most others on this thread are working on, but I did not get that opportunity out of college. I'm glad I have a job, but I am not happy. I have been trying to move on (have had some leads, but nothing came to fluition yet) but the market here in the midwest is abysmal at best. So I am trying to stick it out as long as I can keep my sanity and keep blood pressure down.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that things can be a lot worse, and don't let the fact that you feel undercompensated detract you from the work that you enjoy doing. Remember what I said above and I think you'll be fine.

Good Luck

 

[GregLocock]

jtx-your example makes my general case perfectly. Why on earth would a company pay a wet behind the ears grad 40k, when for 50k plus a bump they can get someone with 5 years experience?

Cheers

Greg Locock


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