Zoning of systems??? 3

[TravisMack]

It has come up recently by a fire inspector that you are required to match the fire alarm zoning per floor with the fire sprinkler system. Has any one come across this. We have a 2 story school building that is 9800k sq ft per floor. It was supplied with a single control valve and flow switch assembly. This is correct per NFPA 13.

The inspector is requiring a separate flow switch for the 2nd floor because the fire alarm system is zoned per floor. Has any one else run into this?

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[NJ1]

Well I have seen options like:
Zoning Water Flow as independent zone(?) floor 2
Smoke Detector zone (?) floor 2
Is that what you mean?

 

[TravisMack]

I am referring to requiring the fire sprinkler zoning to match the fire alarm zoning. NFPA 13 allows both floors to be provided with a single control valve and flow switch. But, the inspector is stating that we have to have a flow switch for the upper floor as well because the fire alarm code requires it.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[NJ1]

Oh Ok I seen that lots of time in multiple floors here in NJ. Does your state has a uniform fire code such as Interantional Fire Code or Fire Prevention Code?

 

[TravisMack]

Yes, this particular jurisdiction has their own amended set of codes. We found it in there after some searching. I have just never come across this. I have seen 4 story hotels done with a single control valve and flow switch. It may not be the best for maintenance, but does at least comply with NFPA 13.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[NJ1]

Yeah I know. If you look in the International Fire Code New Jersey Edition it does have the same requirement.

 

[cdafd]

as you say it is because of a local admendment

we have a similar admendment, in some situations, on top of what the base fire code requires


makes it a little easier to just have to look in certain areas for fire/ problem

 

[firepe]

Travis,

as you are finding here in this situation, Building Codes and locally adopted Ordinances ALWAYS trump the NFPA 13 Standard (NOT a Code). In general, I think many believe (not necessarily You) and incorrectly so, that NFPA 13 is it, and if they comply with NFPA 13, they are finished.

The reality is that NFPA 13 is a Standard (not a Code) that is a reference document to the Building Code. If there is a local Ordinace with additional requirements, that exceed NFPA 13, then so be it.

Otherwise you are correct, NFPA 13 would not require this. As a point of discussion, The IBC Building Code would nor require this either, UNLESS you have a standpipe system, and youare using a standpipe riser as a combination riser, THEN the IBC Building Code would require this on each floor.

Fire Sprinklers Save Lives.
Can You Live Without Them?

 

[stookeyfpe]

Firepe,

The only time the condition described by Travis is required in the 2009 IFC or IBC is a high-rise. If I have a building that is <75 feet above the lowest level of fire department access, individual zoning of floor water flow switches is not required.

With that said, I agree with your analysis. Essentially, the code tells you what is required and the standard tells you how to construct a compliant design.

 

[firepe]

Stookey,

I stand corrected, partially.

You are correct in that IBC requires control valves and flow switches on any riser, whether it is a combination standpipe riser or dedicated sprinkler riser, in High Rise.

However, IBC also refers to NFPA 14. NFPA 14, 2007, 6.3.5.1 states that "each connection to a standpipe that is a part of a combinationssystem to a sprinkler system shall have an individual control valve and check valve...". This requirement is regardless of whether it is a High Rise or not.

I contend that a sprinkler system is established with each control valve fed from a combination standpipe riser, and as a Sprinkler system, stand alone at each connection to the combination Standpipe riser, it now also requires an alarm per NFPA 13, and IBC 2009, 903.4.2

Fire Sprinklers Save Lives.
Can You Live Without Them?

 

[TravisMack]

Firepe:

Going from memory, if you have a combination standpipe, you need a separate floor control valve assembly per NFPA 14.

This was just a small building. It went through plan review without any questions, and on the day of the final, it got shot down by the inspector. Because of the configuration, it would be relatively easy to modify. Just add a tandem riser, 30' of bulk main and cap a tee on the 1st floor main. In the big picture, not a big deal, but would have been easier to fix during design instead of on the day of the final.

Actually, as I heard it this morning, they just put a second flow switch on the pipe going up to the 2nd floor. That way, if both flow switches trip, fire is on the 2nd floor. If one goes, it is on the main floor.

However, going forward in that jurisdiction, we will be showing separate floor control valve assemblies, even if it is a 10 sq ft floor

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[pipesnpumps]

I hope you were a good little designer and put theinspectors test at the high point right? and not just a test and drain on the riser..

That way they can test the 2nd floor flow switch and the original system riser flow at the same time. Sort of a frankenstein system.. "This is a good learning moment" is my favorite comic relief for these type situations.

 

[TravisMack]

Yeah, they had an inspector's test on the top floor. Some times you just get lucky

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

http://www.mfpdesign.com

 

[NJ1]

Actually it would be much easier if every state adopts a national code.
In reference to what firepe said I have to disagree in some way. I was in a deposition where an attorney said that if a standard is adopted by the state it becomes the law however standards such as NFPA 20, 13, 72, etc could be changed if AHJ allows. A standard like NFPA 25 cannot be changed because they are different requirements.
For example:
One sensing line shared for both pumps. Not allowed as per NFPA 20 but you see that all the time. It was approved that way by AHJ.

On the contrary you see inspectors requesting NFPA 25 routine inspections, testing and maintenance. Never heard an inspector saying that you dont have to do a 3rd year trip test.