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Unexplained Failure of 17-7 TH1050 Parts (Cont. 2)

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mighoser

Aerospace
Jul 10, 2006
160

Folks,

I just received the final report from the lab. The failed link is referred to as Link #79 Some conclusions from the lab:

1. Link #79 exhibited a shallow linear surface discontinuity from the original strip rolling process. The seam of unfused material was approximately .001" deep by approximately the width of one leg of the annular end of the link and was oriented at approximately 20 degrees with respect to the rolling direction of the parent strip material.

2. It is probable that the stress concentration resulting from the surface discontinuity coupled with the low tensile ductility exhibited by link # 79 made it susceptible to failure under the transient start up load of the test firing.

3. The alloy chemistry from Link #79 exceeded the maximum carbon limit per AMS 5528F, paragraph 3.1, with the remaing alloy elements within specification for type 17-7PH stainless steel.

4. The hardness of Link #79 was 46 HRC (487 HK 500 gf)

The shallow linear discontinuity along the edge of the fracture in Link #79 was the only such anomaly observed among all of the hardware examined at the M&P Lab. The seam probably originated during the rolling operation which produced the nominal .032 inch sheet stock. Due to coining of the fracture edge containing the seam, the original depth of the flaw cannot be determined, but it was probably greater than the .001 depth documented in the report. Surface flaws of this type can arise from scabs or gouges in the thicker gage coil or hot band surface, which subsequently gets rolled back into the sheet. The opposite half of this feature was not recovered from the wreck debris. It is likely that the entire discontinuity in original strips would have been rolled more or less closed at the surface, forming a tight crack-like stress concentrator with a sharp root radius. Given the lack of tensile fracture ductility exhibited by this link, the fracture toughness and crack tolerance of this material was probably low relative to material with higher ductility and lower hardness. The combination of a stress concentration the seam and reduced toughness because of the heat treatment condition during the transient loading during startup of the conveyor mechanism is thought to have caused Link # 79 to fail catastrophically.

Additional thoughts: There has been some confusion on what the hardness of the parts should be with respect to AMS 5528F and AMS 2759/3. AMS 5528F describes response to heat treat should be 38 to 46 HRC whereas AMS 2759/3 requires hardness to be 38-44. During tensile tests of parts, we found those parts which were equal or less than 44 HRC exhibited higher failure loads and elongation at failure in a very consistent manner. Those parts which failed prematurely at lower failure loads and elongation were 44-47 HRC. I suspect that our fine blanking/straightening process which occurs when material is in the TH1050 condition introduces some normally acceptable micro cracking. Higher hardness and therefore increased notch sensitivity probably can explain the results of our tensile testing. It is important to note that though the higher hardness link failed at low loads, these load are below worst case operational loads.

Questions: Is there a better choice in terms of alloy or HT which would minimize our risk to notch sensitivly from varitions in processing?? I believe 17-7 TH1050 one the least forgiving alloy/heat treat with respect to processing variations.

Any comments on our labs defect hypothesis. Is it plausable?
 
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Absolutely plausible.

Regards,

Cory

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Could be. It is hard to imagine how a surface defect was introduced at rolling that is not in the rolling direction, but stranger things have happened.

My first choice would be to use 17-7 in the RH condition with a high age temp, but I don't have data to back that up.

I see two options. Use 13-8 aged to about the same strength. It will have higher ductility and toughness.
Or, go to higher strength material like Custom 455 and use the H1050 condition giving you higher strength and toughness.

Could the parts be stamped in the A condition, aged and then coined to size? I really don't like the idea of stamping material that is Rc44. The edge condition will always be critical.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
 
Edstainless,

I don't like the idea of stamping at RC44 but we can't stand the change in geometry/flatness from bringing it from Condition A to TH1050. We started with this approach during development. For simplicity, we have to live with the post heat treat stamping. I would like to minimize the risk of this choice. Picking an alloy and HT which is less sensitive to process variation makes sense to me.

We decided to create a fixture which load tests our links before they get test fired. Last week we had a link fail during testing. Brittle fracture was observed and this specimen is being sent to the lab for further investigation.

Are there any trade offs to the alloys/heat treats that you have suggested?

-17-7 RH 1150??
-13-8 aged to about the same strength
-Custom 455 H1050

How do these compare in cost relative to 17-7 TH1050?
Am I really preventing issues related to heat treat by switching?

Thank you.
 
Why not hold the stamped parts in a fixing jig while heat treating it. This will hold the tight dimensions and will relieve any internal stresses caused by the bending and stamping process. It may be more expensive but it will probably solve your problem.
 
These are rather small parts, fixturing isn't practical.

I am looking for the 17-7 in RH1050 data, come on, one of you guys from Cartech help us out here.

How about this, add a tumble or chemical polishing step after stamping to radius the edges. This would lessen the efective depth of the microcracks.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
 
Edstainless,

Is the RH1050 heat treat less suseptiple to producing material which is brittle (maybe not the best word). I believe it is you that said that even if the required steps of the TH1050 heat treat are followed, hardness varies quite a bit. In our experiments, hardness has been the defining characheristic of a poor performance. Any thoughts? Also, what is the cost difference?

Thanks
 
I found some NASA data on RH1050

yield:185 ksi
ultimate: 200 ksi
elonation: 10%
 
We just had another full system "wreck" at the firing range. Two failed links, one of which was in an area of the belt which showed no evidence of high stress. These links had pass our proof load testing (this testing has detected at least one discrepant link so far) so we are scratching our heads on this one. Both links had hardness in the range of 46-47 HRC. Is there any way to determine hardness non destructively and quickly? How about measuring the magnetic permiability. Would there be significant differences between HRC 44 and say HRC 47? I've read max perm is 208 in condition TH1050. Still doing research on this.
 
There have been a couple of other threads on 17-7, I doubt that the magnetic properties are reliable enough to allow sorting, but you could try. You might have to calibrate the system for every lot of parts. You could run Eddy Current testing and sort the parts into bins (classes). The test actual hardness for samples from each bin.

I like the RH1050 mechaicals. Better ductility and I suspect less chance of gross microstructural issues.

I was just looking at some Custom 465 data. The H1100 looks to give about 190UTS/160yld/20%elong. This is a lot more ductility.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
 
I'm not familiar with eddy current testing (ASTM ...?). What is this and what tools are required? I like your idea about sorting them into classes and then hardness testing a sample from each. What kind of intervals would I use? In other words, how many bins will I need? I know this will depend upon observed variation. I also am impressed with custom 465, any idea of the cost and availability of this in sheet?
 
I'm assuming that I send something through the link posted in your thread "signiture".
 
I didn't want to keep info off of the forum, but there were some comercial issues to discuss that I didn't think belonged here.
If I dig up anymore info that pertains to this I will post it.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Rust never sleeps
Neither should your protection
 
Ed,

Would you mind emailing me your contact info for future ref.

Thanks,

Mark
 
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