Underground SS 304 or 316 tubing?

• Mar 16, 2009

• #2

JayCarp

Mechanical

Aug 16, 2006

12

Need a lot more input -


a) what is the pressure ? diameter ????

b) what is the distance ?

c) what type of soil -

dry / wet / what chemistry and

electrolytes ??????????????

d) any big power lines near ??????????
will this be part of a ground
(earth ) sustem picking up
destructive stray currents ???????

e) is operation steady state after reaching

equilibrium or does pressure fluctuate ???????????????????????????????????????????
IE filling hydrogen vehicles ?

 

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• Mar 17, 2009

• #3

stanweld

Materials

May 9, 2003

2,906

I would advise that CP be added. I have seen a number of cases where CP was not added and the pipe quickly became swiss cheese at costs of many millions to rectify.

 

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• Mar 17, 2009

• #4

SJones

Petroleum

Apr 22, 2001

3,898

http://www.google.com/custom?domain...000000;GFNT:0000FF;GIMP:0000FF;FORID:1;&hl=en

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/8/83b/b04

 

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• Mar 18, 2009

• #5

cloa

Petroleum

Jul 18, 2008

1,071

While I guess the issue of external corrosion needs to be considered, the OP wants to first know if 304 is affected by high pressure hydrogen, assuming its dry and at room temperature, I don't think it is embrittled which is the only corrosion issue.

 

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• Mar 19, 2009

• #6

stanweld

Materials

May 9, 2003

2,906

The 304 SS will handle the hydrogen; it will be corroded from the out side due to soil and electrolytes contained therein.

 

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• Mar 19, 2009

• #7

EdStainless

Materials

May 20, 2004

15,937

there are a lot of buried water lines in Japan that are 316. None are 304.
Internal is no issue, even if there is water.
External could be a nightmare, considering the risk if there is a leak.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

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• Mar 25, 2009

• #8

hacksaw

Mechanical

Dec 7, 2002

2,562

seems a bit worrying that you'd be burying HP hydrogen tubing without some mechanical barrier to protect it from digs, soil corrosion, etc.

 

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• Mar 25, 2009

• #9

stanweld

Materials

May 9, 2003

2,906

Over 30 years ago, miles of 304 SS pipe to be placed in high pressure hydrogen service was installed at a US Gov facility without protection. It was swiss cheese in less than a year at taxpayer expense of nearly 30 million dollars for replacement - almost sounds like real money!

 

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• Apr 11, 2009

• #10

MJCronin

Mechanical

Apr 9, 2001

5,087

Everyone......

There are guidelines for the design and installation of above and underground hydrogen piping systems. New standards are also in development.

Consider NFPA 55 and the rules contained in ASME B31.3

http://www.hydrogenandfuelcellsafety.info/archives/2006/may/febMinutes_nfpa.pdf

The Compressed Gas Association (CGA) also publishes recommended guidelines for hydrogen systems.

http://www.techstreet.com/cgi-bin/detail?product_id=1154166

-MJC

 

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• May 8, 2009

• #11

FYS

Petroleum

Jun 24, 2008

22

The SS - 316 buried pipes in Japan, have CP?

 

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• May 8, 2009

• #12

FYS

Petroleum

Jun 24, 2008

22

Ed,

The SS - 316 buried pipes in Japan, have CP?

Regards

 

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• May 9, 2009

• #13

EdStainless

Materials

May 20, 2004

15,937

No CP, they don't. But the locations that I have seen reports on are 'good' soil. Not wet, not coastal, not high organics.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

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• May 11, 2009

• #14

stanweld

Materials

May 9, 2003

2,906

In the late 1950's, the US Gov published its findings regarding the use of 304 SS and 316 SS in underground service without Cathodic Protection. Type 304 was ruled out for such use but type 316 was not (pitting corrosion occurred in only one soil type tested). As a result of that publication, the Utility for which I worked initiated a pilot program to install 316 risers to the gas meters at private homes. In certain soils where Colorado River water was used for irrigation and a suitable crevice was formed, pitting corrosion resuted in leakage. The estimated cost to replace was 5 million USD in 1979.

 

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