Earthquake Engineering 1

Seismic engineering requirements are becoming more prevalent in all codes. It is simply a matter of degree and and determining whether it is critical for the particular structure.

Since you never know where you will be practicing, take the course and develop a basic understanding of the concepts and applicability to current codes. The newer codes may require more seismic analysis, so it is not not time wasted.

Dick

Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.

I was just speaking to a colleage and he was saying that the codes are not based that I have a full understanding of earthquake but that I can apply the building code. In addition, he mentioned that employers that may want to hire someone who with a earthquake engineering background, do not simple look at someone that took one course but someone that took earthquake as well as base isolation and other courses as well as the experience to design dampeners or devices for a bridge or building. Which requires more than one course and alot of time in study. If that is the case, it may be just worth it for me just to learn it on my own.

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste

Take it. It will help you get an SE license (IL, CA, WA come to mind) in the future.

Cant you learn earthquake on your own and take the SE license as well?

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste

I'd say that it really depends on the course.

I'd say that, for the most part, what you want to become familiar with are the the seismic loading codes (ASCE-7) and the seismic detailing provisions of AISC and ACI and how to apply them. That can be more complex than it sounds...especially for engineers who didn't cut their teeth doing design in California to the UBC.

Now, the guys who do base isolation and mass dampers and such are usually specialists. They probably work for the larger and more prestigious engineering companies that specializes in high end seismic design.... great work if you can get it. But, the vast majority of engineering work here in the US (even here in California) would not require that type of expertise.

I am not really interested in the expertise per se. I just do not want to be limited in terms of career oppurtunities or a job for that matter, because I did not take a course. I worked hard to get where I am and it is frustrating seeing doors closing in front in me because I do not have this or that. I just want to get a feel if this is something I should do because of advantages or should I just read a book on Earthquake Engineering and learn on my own.

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste

Calif,
I cannot help out in your exact situation (I'm in Florida, no shakey ground here). Though I believe there is no substitute for on the job training, there are some economic realities to deal with these days. Employers who would hire just about anyone with a BSCE 5 or 10 years ago can now demand Masters Degrees and specialized coursework. If you have the time and there is a college nearby, any continuing education in your field won't HURT you. Its been 13 years since I got my BS and I am considering going back one class at a time to keep my options open down the road.

No offense intended here, but unless you can explain here in a treatise what an Eigenvalue and an Eigenvector is, and their specific use in seismic engineeering, take the course.

In low rise buildings, it will probably not help you with the design, and applying the code would be paramount as your professor mentioned. However, with high-rise structures, I have to disagree with him. Many of these are cutting edge, and the code is only a small part. These structures frequently rewrite sections of the code, whether they fail or not. (bigsmile)

So, ask yourself... What do you want to do? (ponder)

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask

if you love bread and amazed on how those things puff like that, then be a baker.

I can say that if you are really interested on that field then go with It.... But experience is the best teacher, I suggest you must find a firm who do specialized on that field (they are mostly big and prestigious companies)so that you will expose yourself much on it. And if you think you really want that field then get a Masters with that specialty




Poems are made by fools like me, but only God can make a tree. engineers creates wonderful buildings, but only God can creates wonderful minds

Jump for any education you can get whether it is formal of employment experience. Your direction may change, but no one can eliminate the experience.

Coming out of college as an EIT, it took a facilities engineering job for about 2 years in the aerospace industry. My fist design failed when an unexpected cloud/bubble of hydrogen gas exploded over the the building an caused loads that were beyond any code or standard, but I learned that situations require different thinking. The roof was rebuilt in a week and all computers were replaced and the cleaning and venting process was changed to recognize the possibilities.

While still an EIT, I has a registered California structural engineer working for me doing dynamic analysis (learn as you go)on rocket test stands (similar natural frequency to 20 story high rise steel structures) where the structural dynamics, put the loads went up because the vibrating, gimballing engine was firing and the 200,000# of fuel was burned off. Fortunately because of the company resources and structural failures of an acceptance test stand, we had program where we were able it place meters at every joints for acceleration and down load the results into a sister company's airframe program (North American Aviation) to determine the actual loads. With this we compared it to the current (at the time) stresses and deflections as a guide for future designs - the right place at the right time.

Four years later after getting in2 years of direct construction experience, I worked for a utility and was involved is the site analysis for a nuclear plant where we needed a soil consultant to place measuring eauipment and set off charges to determine the characteristics of the site and the effect of the high water table in an alluvial soil. At the day of the the testing, the engineer from the soil consultant (Dames & Moore?) turned out to be my supervisor on rocket test stand design and analysis.

My direction has changed and I have been involved in code and construction internationally (40 countries) and found a home.

The bottom line is to take advantage of everything you can do to broaden your experience since you have many years to go and many options in addition to those you see now.

Dick

Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.

Take the course especially if it requires one to have already taken structural dynamics such that the earthquake engineering course can cover more information about seismicity, developement of RSA elastic and inelastic, mass dampers, and all the materials such as steel, concrete, masonry and their seismic detailing requirements.

If the course description says that it will cover SDOF and MDOF systems along with the IBC code then you can figure on spending 90% of your time in structural dynamics and 10% on the code if there is time.

I've taken structural dynamics and earthquake engineering courses. Structural dynamics was necessarily theoretical and useful but the course on earthquake engineering really built on that knowledge not rehashed it.



Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

Oh, and IMHO, you cannot learn earthquake engineering on your own, ie, through experience. The reason is that earthquake engineering covers many, many topics that you're business may not work in. But having the coursework will give you insight into those areas so you can pick up where the professor left off and work more on your own.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

I bet the designer of Roman Aqueduct took an earthquake engineering (just joking)....



Poems are made by fools like me, but only God can make a tree. engineers creates wonderful buildings, but only God can creates wonderful minds

Hi Qshake,

My office includes earthquake in design but nobody really analysis models for earthquake forces. So if I wanted to learn how programs come up with earthquake forces, I pretty much will have to do it on my own. I work for a small place but bigger firms may have more concern of analyzing models and more QC and understanding may be needed.

Concrete Masonry

I am glad you replied to that, it gets me thinking that I may need that flexibility that you have in your experience. As mentioned before, I have been shut out due to opportunity because I did not have something or not enough experience but now it gets me thinking that we do not know what the future may bring but having flexibility gives me more options.

Msquare,

I am going to ponder it more. I have never done a sky scraper and do not see myself really wanting to do one. In fact, if I get to do a hospital or office building, I would be happy doing something like that or a low rise building that is big area but not really high at all. I am just not fascinated by tall structures but things that look good and well design and close to the ground. Maybe a stadium one day but not sky scrapers.

A2mfk

I hear what you are saying, and I like to keep my options open but I will say this, man, I am tired of going to night class and being pinned to a schedule with no life. Really do not feel like studying unless it is worth the time.

Joshplum

If I understand your reasoning, it leads me to think that any engineer who intends not to specialize in earthquake engineering requiring designing dampening systems and base isolation analysis, needs no course in earthquake engineering. They only need to apply the codes for ASCE-7 and seismic requirement for detailing. Am I wrong in what you mean?

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste

I don't know about the course you are considering, but I expect that such courses teach more than just determining forces. Seismic design is not a complicated methodology created for just coming up with some force values to load your structure with - after all there are simplified methods that can give you a fare estimate of the forces without "precise" 3D modelling - noone can ever know what the _exact_ forces will be.

They should teach you the difference of brittle versus ductile behaviour, how to design and detail the joints and elements of the structure so they can dissipate energy. They will tell you how soil conditions affect the impact the earthquake will have on the structure, how different foundation systems should be designed in order to work as modelled, and many, many other things.

Even if you have good references, it is worth taking a course - it will not teach you only the material you expect - points from the agenda - you will meet experienced people, you will be told things from the practice of the lecturer that are not in the books. And more important - you will be given the chance to ask questions - either to the lecturer or the other participants in the coffee break - things you can't do when simply reading a book. It is a professional meeting with educational purpose, not just a lecture that costs M dollars and will pay you back N dollars in the future.

And as you are concerned about the career - you can meet yout next employer there or meet people who work for him and that can tell you about their work.

Mike

As Mikesq said, do as much as you can to get exposure to different areas and make contacts.

When I worked in facilities engineering in the aerospace industry, we were required to have continuing education to beef up the credentials and resume for the purposes of getting additional contracts. The upside was they paid the tuition plus any travel and time (overtime) because many classes for a Masters were offered at night. I took evening classes at USC and obviously the instructors were from private practice area and had practical experience. I learned more about structures (dynamic and seismic) in one class that put everything together and in perspective relative to the real world. - Six months later our company hired a firm (Parsons?) on some seismic and dynamic analysis and and the lead man from the firm was my instructor at USC. It made it easy to understand and work with the firm on a project and we were only 5 or 10 years apart and enjoyed a few beers in barren places for casual meetings around the Edwards AFB where the NASA acceptance rocket test stands were.

The more you move around and get exposure, the more you learn from both an academic and practical standpoint.

Dick

Engineer and international traveler interested in construction techniques, problems and proper design.

Besides designing support for buildings and bridges, what else can a structural engineer do?

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste

Calif...really? You think structural engineers are just "buildings and bridges" people?

Just...wow

Don't let my ignorance turn you off from the question. If you can point things out for me, educate me in knowing what I can do with my career.

The resisant virtues of the structure that we seek depend on their form; it is through their form that they are stable, not because of an awkward accumulation of material. There is nothing more noble and elegant from an intellectual viewpoint than this: to resist through form. Eladio Dieste