Hybrid Masonry Wall Offset

If the wall isn't load bearing, I see no reason why they need to align.

It is not load bearing. Please share other ways to connect the non load bearing reinforced masonry wall and top I-beam that are not aligned. How are they usually connected when they are offset/misaligned to each other?

How you've shown has worked for me, it depends often on the extent of the offset. There's no one-size-fits-all solution.

As indicated in the other thread, depending on the loads applied to the wall, and therefore the connections, there may need to be some form of bottom flange bracing for the beam you're connecting to. If the offset is enough to extent the masonry wall up to the top of steel beam there may be other options that are cheaper available.

Pixy - based on the quote in the other thread, that looks like what I was describing. Though for a bypass wall I'd probably attache the angle to the top flange so there's a direct load path to the roof diaphragm/bracing. If you do the bottom flange to the wall and the top flange to the diaphragm/bracing you'll have to consider torsion in the steel beam.

This is initial roof plan. We changed to an I-beam because it's cheaper than the HSS. All the rafters are directly connected to the column top baseplates that is shared by the i-beam at perimeter too.

So there may be no need to put angle in the top flange to have direct load path to the roof diaphragm/bracing. Because they are all connected at the baseplates on the columns already. The columns I'll put steel cap so shear capacity would be optimum given they are converging there.

What is the longest height of wall you have done? 4.4 meters would give a 1 meter parapet above the i-beam. But isn't it 4.4 meters very long. It's 2.73 x 4.4 = 12 KN per meter in the beam or 0.82 Kips/foot. Don't you consider too big walls even if the beam underneath can support it.

Load path from the wall into the diaphragm - not the diaphragm to the columns. You still need to connect the wall, and you want that load path to be as straightforward and efficient as possible.

I don't have all of these things memorized - whatever the design is for the wall, I calculate the loading, apply it to the beam, and figure out what size beam I need and how large/frequent the connections need to be.

It's not clear to me where the wall is based on that plan, is it the black line on the angle? If so, I'd be extending the wall up to the underside of channels and putting an intermittent angle on each side of the wall fastened to the joists. Maybe 1500 long segments on each side staggered spaced at 1500 (so each side of the wall is supported for 1500 every 3000, and where there isn't restraint on one side, you'd have it on the other).

The structure was already built 7 years ago and designed by original designer (above is file photo, thin metal roof sheet was above the polyethylene insulation to shed water from center to side gutter) He didn't connect the diaphragm (rafters only, no steel deck was put) to the wall I-beams but all to columns. So the new masonry or concrete wall will be connected to column also via I-beam at perimeter and not to any roof diaphragm. It would be too costly to remove all of them now.

The reason the wall is not aligned to the I-beam was because 4 inches of hardiflex (1/3" cement board) cladding stud was simply put at the side to quicken installation because there was a tenant who was hurrying him.

But now we need to pure masonry wall or even concrete wall at the perimeter. As you can see in the picture. If the wall raise up. It won't coincide with the I-beam on top but will bypass it with I-beam at the inner side just an inch or touching the side of the I-beam (picture shows it well). My question is how to connect the wall bypassed above to the I-beam at side. Please show some actual connection by others just to get idea, study it and get approval for new plan.

Pixy said:

Has anyone built anything like this?

Click to expand...

All the time. Its a very simple detail. The first picture you show is pretty much it. Not sure what's so confusing about it, or why it has taken over a year to figure this out? I'll draw it for a nominal $$$ fee. It's literally a wall, a beam, an angle, a bolt, and a couple of notes. Maybe instead of begging other people to do everything, you could draw a sketch of what you think it should look like and we can look at it?

Since your beam doesnt appear to be connected to...anything...the out of plane wall loads will just be bending the beam about the weak axis. Torsion will be an issue unless you clip the wall to it on top and bottom flanges. I.e., angles on top and bottom of the beam. It's pretty much just a wind girt as far as I can tell. Check your connections at the column since that's the only place for the load to go (no diaphragm connection).

How are you calculating your wall out of plane loads? What equations and variables are you using?

The perimeter beams are welded to the rafters at top of column which is welded to baseplate and side baseplates will be welded to top baseplate to create a steel cap for maximum shear resistance (since no diaphragm and everything welded and resisted at the top of column).

The calculations we used is like this:


Problem is. I asked other structural engineers. They never use angles on I-beam to support offset masonry walls. What they do is simply weld rebars inside the I-beam flange and connect it the beam bond of the masonry wall. Hence I'm asking if the National Concrete Masonry Association have anything about supporting the masonry wall at sides. Remember I just edited the first picture (that Is I edited the masonry wall and put at side). It's not in the NCMA reference.
See:


Hence I'm asking for picture of actual offset wall to beam connection, or by NCMA and not something I just edited quickly for illustration.

In late 2019 just before the viral scourge ravaged the world. The Philippines copied the USA ASTM C90 for load bearing masonary units and USA ASTM C129 for non-load bearing blocks to replace a 1984 standard that we poorly copied elsewhere.

But now only a few are aware of the changes. And we need time to adapt. So need international tips and my questions are justified.


All stores selling non-bearing masonry wall can break by simply dropping (like the drop test in above video). According to ASTM C129. Non-bearing masonry block must be at least 500 psi. So I need to know. Can 500 psi masonry block break when you make it fall at chest or stomach level??

If not. Then we must use load bearing masonry blocks for non-bearing wall used, for safety factors.

Second. We are just in the doorway of membership into the National Concrete Masonry Association (NCMA). The following is another edited illustration.



I can't see the NCMA tips on supported side masonry wall with I-beam. Supposed the above wall is 15 feet high braced at the 10 feet level without any diaphragm and the 4 feet parapet on top of the I-beam won't be braced at roof section. But the I-beam just connected to adjacent columns like in my last message. Has anyone seen anyone like it? Or designed anything like it? Well. No structural designer I know has ever designed like this here. How about in your place? So you connected the angle at the top flange to the masonry wall? Please share what you saw or heard or designed with regards to side supported masonry walls (something I haven't seen in NCMA). Just want an idea to ponder. Why don't they show one?

(btw.. in all our constructions, it is standard to reinforce wall with 10mm rebars every 0.6 meter vertical and horizontal (every 2 feet). Most structural engineers just know this rule.)

I think this thread has gone down the wrong rabbit hole. Hybrid masonry design is a specific kind of masonry where you rely on the masonry and the structural steel frame to work together. By offsetting the masonry wall, you are no longer using the benefits of hybrid masonry design. The figure modified at the top is like an Escher diagram and can't exist in the real world. Having the wall offset from the beam is possible, but it doesn't follow hybrid masonry design (or as the TMS 402 code calls it in Appendix B, masonry infill). This type of infill walls are used all over the world, but are difficult to design since you are taking two totally different materials and behavior and trying to make them work together. Many of the answers above are just how to support a masonry wall that is offset from a steel beam. Maybe this will help you resolve your theoretical dilemma.

BTW, hybrid masonry design and detailing is covered in NCMA TEK 14-09A ( and TEK 3-03B ( The Masonry Society's Masonry Designer's Guide (2106) also has a short chapter on infill design with design examples (

@masonrygeek,
I'm pretty sure "hybrid" in the thread title is not referencing a true masonry-wall-panel/steel-frame hybrid structural system that you're thinking about, but "hybrid" because there are simply two different materials: masonry wall connecting to a piece of steel. OP has multiple threads about this. He's just trying to connect the wall to the beam for out of plane loading. Many users have explained it 10 different ways but OP just wants someone to do his job for him.

All our codes are copied from ACI because we are so poor to produce our own codes. So most structural engineers among us just follow it blindly and this is why sometimes it is essential to discuss with you guys about this.

Background. We don't have any bond beam blocks, and we never use angles in beam. When we need bond beam every 3 meters high or length. We place concrete beam with top and bottom rebars on top of masonry and place concrete like you put concrete in beam with formwork like in the following picture.



Now in the wall offset with i-beam at the side. We plan to put bond beam flush (same level) with the I-beam then weld many horizontal rebars between the I-beam and the concrete bond beam (of course there are sufficient vertical bars to connect the concrete bond beam and the masonry).



Note the rebar cage in bottom half of picture is inside the masonry, not outside (just for illustration purpose).

Has anyone done anything like this? Will it work? The wall is non-load bearing, 3 meters (9.8 feet) high. Using 6" thick blocks. With 12mm (0.47") diameter vertical and horizontal rebars every half meter (19.6 inches). And the I-beam beside has no top load and it is not connected to any roof diaphragm so no problem with torsion or even flexure. It is just top supported connected to steel capped concrete top.

Doing that will turn the wall loadbearing. The wall is far stiffer, orders of magnitude even, than the beam. All the load on the beam will go straight into the wall.

The load of the beam is the beam itself (it doesn't carry any load above it, no parapet will be added). It is W8x21. It's 21 lbs per foot. The i-beam depth is 8.28" with width of 5.27".

In non-load bearing wall, the masonry blocks have to support the top portion. So I suppose masonry blocks can definitely support 21 lbs per foot of the I-beam weight itself?



Let's say the inside of the I-beam won't be filled with concrete. The bond beam will be same thickness as the 6" blocks or total 7.5" plastered. Will that work now? Only the rebars in concrete bond beam flush (same level as I-beam) will be welded to the bottom and top flange of the w8x21 i-beam.

Why does the beam exist if there's no load on it?

Regardless. I believe many of us have given you as much guidance as we can. To keep that wall truly non-loadbearing, you need some form of slip connection. Dowels and grout will not create a slip joint.

The I-beam was put to give top support to the masonry wall below it. The masonry rebars were supposed to be connected to underneath the I-beam. And parapet were supposed to be put above the I-beam.



But now, no parapet above would be supported by the I-beam anymore for safety factor because of torsion.

Let's say the masonry wall below is aligned to the I-beam above. Would welding the wall rebars to beneath the I-beam just like in illustration above create load bearing in the masonry wall?

How about the following where all the top rebars of the wall is stick to the hole in the top beam. Would it turn the wall load bearing? If not, how does it differ if the I-beam is directly above the wall and the rebars welded to the bottom of I-beam flange?

My opinion if your block goes right to underside of beam, whether there's a rebar connection or not, then the wall becomes load-bearing. If there's a gap between underside of beam and top of wall, then not load-bearing. Honestly it should be fairly intuitive to look at a situation and determine where the load is going to go.

What connects to the beam? Steel deck? Concrete slab? It obviously has to support something even if it's only a small portion of the roof. Otherwise I question the ability of that beam to provide enough weak axis strength to support the wall.