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Distance of fixing element from edge of the panel 3

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Azzazil

Azzazil

Automotive
Feb 1, 2020
95
Hello what is rule of the thumb to have distance of the clips on trim panels between each clip and from the edge of the panel? On some cars order of fixing elements is good and you can remove panel only with usage of plastic trim panel tool to disassemble panel, but somewhere I notice that clips are in not correct order and they are far from edge of the panel so you can remove those panels by sticking finger between panels and remove them.

Here is example on which panels I am asking:
panel_picture_1_ocyxfd.png

panel_picture_2_gsnvyg.png


Usually plastic arrow clip can withstand around 30N of pulling force, does anyone knows what force is necessary to remove panel by hand and by trim panel removal tool?
 
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clips are in not correct order
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What do you mean by this? I don't there is any "order" as with tightening screws on a flange to even out compression force.

The design/location objectives of the clips is to securely hold the panel and preven rattling against other components. To this end, clips on the interior of the panel prevent flexing and rattling of the panel, subject to the stiffness of the panel and its edge.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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My experience has been to ensure there are burrs on the sheet metal to dig into the plastic clips, making destruction of the clips necessary to remove them. Alternatively, use plastics that become very brittle with age so they fracture after 5 years on a removal attempt. If neither of those is possible, make the mating retraining groove in the trim part so that it breaks, leaving the clip in place in the vehicle body and no practical way to retain that location on the trim panel. Especially, try to use a clip design for only one year so that no aftermarket versions will be worth making for replacements.

Finally, use integral features to hook into slots molded as part of the trim panel so anyone doing a repair has a good chance of snapping those off before finding the push-retainers.

All are past Big 3 rules of engagement.
 
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... and don't forget to use clips that are one-time use, with one-way ramps that pop out on the other side of the hole in the underside part with no way to compress the clip to remove it without breaking it. And make the clip unique to that specific vehicle model and stop making that part when that vehicle model's production run ends, so that a few years later they can't be properly repaired.

I hate trim clips.
 
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IRRStuff said:
What do you mean by this? I don't there is any "order" as with tightening screws on a flange to even out compression force.
Click to expand...
Sorry I said it wrong, I was thinking on their position on the panel.

IRRStuff said:
The design/location objectives of the clips is to securely hold the panel and preven rattling against other components.
Click to expand...
Is there guideline how to decide on their position to keep strong retention of panel?

3DDave said:
Alternatively, use plastics that become very brittle with age so they fracture after 5 years on a removal attempt.
Click to expand...
So it is better to have them brittle even if it will means that they will break? I was replacing mirror on my car and I had to remove door panel which had arrow clips on it and nothing brake, that is why I am confused with your statement, since if I break the clip I would harldy find original one.

3DDave said:
Especially, try to use a clip design for only one year so that no aftermarket versions will be worth making for replacements.
Click to expand...
Why is this the case? I always tought that goal is to make something that can be easely changed in the future if something breaks?

BrainPetersen said:
And make the clip unique to that specific vehicle model and stop making that part when that vehicle model's production run ends, so that a few years later they can't be properly repaired.
Click to expand...
This sound to me that you didn't have good time with panel disassembly?
 
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We're being sarcastic, having dealt with the results of vehicle designers building vehicle interiors with scant consideration for future maintenance.
 
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Why is this the case? I always tought that goal is to make something that can be easely changed in the future if something breaks?
Click to expand...

this one isn't actually part of the sarcasm, at least, not for the previous decades; a typical car's future maintenance was not for the initial buyer, but the 2nd or 3rd. Those don't often buy new cars, so no reason to make things easy for them

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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