Continue to Site

Eng-Tips is the largest engineering community on the Internet

Intelligent Work Forums for Engineering Professionals

Register Log in
  • Congratulations KootK on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!

How helpful should one be?

Status
Not open for further replies.
NorthCivil

NorthCivil

Civil/Environmental
Nov 13, 2012
556
I'm in the building construction industry.

I was contacted by the QS of a construction company (general contractor) that I have never dealt with before. They were recommended my way from a regular client of mine (specialist subcontractor).

They had a project they were putting a proposal together for. They hadnt won it yet. For a design-build job. They will need an engineer of my specialty. The type of work is stuff that I will do, however I do not favour, and don't actively pursue (the market for this job is a bit commodified).

The QS asked that I put together a formal fee estimate for him, and that I meet to discuss the project. A formal fee estimate takes 2-3 hours for me to draft. plus a meeting, would be another 3-4 hours of my time.

I told the fellow I could give him a ballpark, but not a formal fee estimate, as fee estimates take time to draft up, and I'm not keen on drafting up formal fee estimates for a client who hasnt even won the job themselves. He pressed on, requesting a formal fee estimate as it will make his package more professional when he submits his proposal to his client.

Its all not sitting right with me. I feel that even if i invest a full days work into this potential job (3 hr fee estimate + 4 hours free meeting time), which this fellow may not even win, once he wins it, he may still shop my price around for cheaper consulting (I'm not the cheapest). If it was a fellow I knew and had done business with before, I might be more keen to help.

Also a bit torn as my regular client does a lot of marketing, he is trying to cozy up to these fellows. Not being helpful myself might not help his cause.

I dont really do any marketing. I win business by word of mouth and keep my clients happy with good service. Im not anywhere near the cheapest with consulting fees. But i keep pretty busy.

what would you do?

 
Replies continue below

Recommended for you

Sort by date Sort by votes
Give them the ballpark estimate, then slot the formal request into the bottom of the things-to-do priority list, with all the other tasks that you'll get around to doing some year, eventually, maybe, if something else doesn't pop up in the meantime.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Its not unusual for me to spend not insignificant amounts of time generating proposals for work. That cost is built into the proposal, and sometimes you win sometimes you lose. Its the cost of doing business. If you are uncomfortable doing that and get work fine by other means, dont do it.

If you can get an assurance that you are the engineer if they win maybe that helps you feel better about the situation? Is the potential fee substantial compared to your normal work or is it along the lines you are used to and not worth the hassel / uncertainty?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Are you already super busy, or do you have open time to do this?
Can you get them to give you a contract stating you will be their engineer if they get the project?
Are they asking other engineers for proposals also?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
It sounds to me like you don't really want or expect to get the job, and aren't desperate for work. If they want a formal proposal they can pay for that, upfront.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Sounds like you just need to tell them thanks, but no thanks. If they get the job, they can come back and you will then give them a price. let them shop someone else around.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Does your regular client say this company is great to work with?

How large is the job? If it's a very large project, or a public project with lots of paperwork, then they might consider a day of work on a proposal to be nothing.

If the hairs are standing up on the back of your neck that they might not be great to work with, then go with that. This reminds me of one of my experiences that started out that way. The client was huge and famous, so I was happy to get into their world. After the first project, I was running the other direction. LOL
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
NorthCivil - this sounds 100% normal. Some of the design/build proposals I've been close to involved preparation of a structural concept because they aren't just bidding the your part of the project - they are giving a full construction price for the project. If there are bridging docs, then great - they have something to go on and it's less work for the design part of the team - but if not they need to know how much construction will cost before you design it.

One of the reasons I don't love doing design-build. You also have to be really careful about the contracts...they love to push a bunch of extra liability and indemnification requirements down onto the design team.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Mt take on this is:

1) If you don't normally have to expend time and money on getting projects then you're very lucky - just about everyone else does....
2) You can just do it this time and see what happens.
3) Maybe come clean and say that you will cover the cost of the fee quote, but the meeting is extra to normal and hence you would like $500?. you could sweeten it a bit and say you'll take that off the bill if the project happens (of course just build that $500 in somewhere else in the quote)
4) Accept that if they win with your companys reputation etc but then either bid it after or attempt to low ball you, then that's life. Just means you have a good excuse not to do business with them again if they do the dirty on you. But see what they will offer you as "comfort" that they won't do this. Even a letter or e-mail would do.
5) Only you know how valuable this work is. One day, one week or several months work? Makes a difference ot how people think about the time taken for quotes.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
IME most contracts are aleatory so execs/senior management can sign vagary to launch projects without risking loss. For engineering projects, customers are provided a ballpark total cost and pay an initial fee for a few hours-weeks of design studies and PM, which allows lower-level employees to give the ballpark due-diligence. At the end of the initial period both sides either sign an addendum solidifying the total cost, an adjustment, or they part ways.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Simple....ask to be paid for a few hours of your time to prepare your quote/proposal. If he's not willing to pay you a few bucks and pay for your time, that means he does not value your time and wants a freebie. If thats the case, its a clear indication to pass on this one.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I routinely have to prepare quotes free of charge for design build jobs (and frequently prepare a separate one for each contractor bidding three project). I think that is just the nature of design builds. I make sure my fee includes the time to quote each one (I don't have hourly contracts). You develop relationships with your customers where they will pay you a slightly higher fee because they trust you, or at the very least give you the opportunity to match your competitors price.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
I'm guessing you are being asked for more than just a proposal, such as a cost break down of your time, resume, etc. My average proposal only time is about 30 minutes, with some of the larger projects maybe taking an hour or 2, which leads me to the conclusion they want you on the team for your experience or resume or this is a government job.

Maybe the meeting can be virtual, so you can continue working on something else during it?

Are you being asked to do any prelim work? If so then you should be paid for it, or get a guarantee that they will use your if they get it. There is always the risk they won't get it however.

Have you talked to your regular client about your feelings on this to gage the situation?

Is the contractor a larger firm, that does a lot of design-build which would turn into more work, that you actually want?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
A lot of broadly varying responses here, all add a lot of value to the discussion, thanks everyone.

I sent the fellow a ballpark, I havent agreed to any meetings yet and he hasnt come back asking for a formal fee estimate (yet).

The job would likely be about 50K USD in design fees, if that makes a difference.

I am already really busy, and dont need to compete for work (yes, I count myself lucky). So investing a day into a big maybe of a job that I dont really want isnt in my own best interest.

If pushed back for a meeting or formal proposal, i will advise i need to charge.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Robbiee
  • Locked
  • Question
About selling a "one-man-show" business 4
2
Replies
20
Views
439
Sparweb
Sparweb
MRob909
  • Locked
  • Question
How I started on my own (Mk II)
Replies
16
Views
224
Enhineyero
Enhineyero
bugbus
  • Locked
  • Question
How to deal with technical incompetence? 2
2
Replies
27
Views
568
LowLax
LowLax
milkshakelake
  • Locked
  • Question
Should I hire another person? 5
Replies
19
Views
172
milkshakelake
milkshakelake
RacknRoll
  • Locked
  • Question
How much to charge? 3
2
Replies
25
Views
265
XR250
XR250

Part and Inventory Search

Sponsor

Back
Top Bottom