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Welding Rod placement in the Quiver question 3

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wdavidchris

wdavidchris

Mechanical
Nov 3, 2015
8
I recently met a client who was inspecting our workshop. One of his issues is that he found that the welding rod (E7016) in the quiver was placed upside down. In his view, the handle portion of the welding rod should be on the top of the quiver (and the end that comes first into contact to the workpiece / pipe should be at the bottom of the quiver (we are talking about quiver placed vertically). I think his logic is that the heat from the quiver is concentrated at the bottom of the quiver. Is there any requirements for this in the industry or in any standards?
 
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The rod needs to be at least 250°F to drive out moisture. It doesn't matter if parts are hotter, as long as no point of the rod is under 250°F. In this case the orientation in the quiver doesn't matter. Turn up the temperature.
 
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as Tug notes... the moisture can cause hydrogen embrittlement with E70 Exx series rod...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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wdavidchris said:
Is there any requirements for this in the industry or in any standards?
Click to expand...

None that I have ever heard of.

And I have never heard of an inspector making an issue of placement in the quiver. But, some inspectors never cease to amaze me either.

If you want to appease him, you could pull a few rods out of the quiver and measure the temperature throughout the length of the rods with an infrared temperature measuring gun. My guess is that they will be the same at the top and the bottom.


The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.
 
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Tug said:
The rod needs to be at least 250°F to drive out moisture
Click to expand...

For new rods, it is to keep moisture out. They should go from a hermetically sealed container to a heated holding oven or caddie (aka quiver) when the hermetic seal is broken when the container is opened.

For rods that have exceeded their maximum time out of heated holding caddies, they typically can be “rebaked” only one time at the manufacturer’s recommended temperature.

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.
 
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If you want to appease him, you could pull a few rods out of the quiver and measure the temperature throughout the length of the rods with an infrared temperature measuring gun. My guess is that they will be the same at the top and the bottom.
Click to expand...

Take one out and be really slow from the end at the bottom of the quiver to the top, then take the next out and go really slow the other way, showing that both ends can be hot and cool at the same time. Make sure both rods were originally in the same orientation.
 
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This is actually an interesting subject - agree totally about previous comments about some inspectors (and Clients) possibly being from another planet !
As a former welder we would always have the uncoated end upwards to enable quick extraction and then placement in the electrode holder.
But now in hindsight - I see it a bit differently.
The coated end is the end that needs protection to enable sound electrode ignition - if the rods are dropped into the quiver or the quiver is accidently dropped there is a possibility the coating on the end may be damaged.
So, IMHO (in hindsight) I think coated end up is the most practical way to store them.
Cheers,
Shane
 
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The client is right. This makes it easier to see the electrode mark and avoid touching the electrode coating.

Regards
 
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r6155 said:
and avoid touching the electrode coating.
Click to expand...

Not touching the electrode coating (flux) is nearly impossible. And it’s not the end of the world. Make sure your welders have reasonably clean gloves when handling.

I agree wholeheartedly with what DekDee stated about welders dropping electrodes into the caddies. Thats a bigger problem.

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.
 
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It's my understanding that they can be reheated twice, but I don't know the source.

Just looked it up... one source


Clipboard01_yzymmc.jpg


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Per AWS D1.1 a low hydrogen electrode can be rebaked once at elevated temperature (around 500 degrees F if the time out of the heated electrode oven has been exceeded. If the low hydrogen electrode has been out of the heated electrode oven for less than the permitted exposure time, it can be reconditioned repeatedly.

If the "quiver" is heated to 250 degrees F, the electrodes can be stored without regard to the exposure limits.

Best regards - Al
 
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thanks...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Store the electrodes in the oven in the same manner as the original package.

Regard
 
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I missed the boat on this one, what critical application requires electrode to be preheated.
Removal of hydrogen. And what documentation supports this. Or is this just from experience.
 
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Some low hydrogen electrodes absorb moisture from the air. The moisture can cause hydrogen embrittlement. It's not to preheat the rods but to ensure they do not have any moisture. See the link I posted.


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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(OP) talks about placing rods in the vertical oven. Please avoid other situations to respond.

Regards
 
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If the parent material is under 40 Hrc hardness
Then no hydrogen embritalment.
If there is and these special rods are required
One should be wearing special gloves.
Then no worry about contamination.
My point there should be in house or specification that specifies the procedure.
If the customer requires that method then the in house procedure should be set and followed by the welders.
Hydrogen embritalment is only an issue with parent material of 40 Hrc and higher.
 
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??? responses all seem to be related.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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I thought hydrogen embrittlement was a feature of the coating material for the electrodes (being hygroscopic) and that some coating materials can have an additional coating that reduces this. I wasn't aware that it was a feature of the alloy in addition.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Dik
Any process that induces hydrogen, such as plating
Because H2O, in the solution. Will induce embrittlement. So my take on this. Is that moisture in the weld rods, During weld can induce hydrogen.
In case with plating, a post bake at 50 degrees below the temper , for x number of hours will remove hydrogen embrittlement. I am assuming the Manufacturing of the rods absorbing and absorbing moisture. (H2O) Can cause embrottlement. Some one can correct me if I am in error.
 
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