Residential Girder Detailing 1

[TRAK.Structural]

I have a project where a client wants to remove a portion of an exterior load bearing wall in order to make a large opening to a rear addition. The wall supports the 2nd level floor, roof trusses, and brick veneer. I've seen some threads about brick veneer support with wood as it relates to the code but it's still a little gray to me. See below some options for the detailing. Option #1 is similar to what I see at garage openings in my area, but I don't love the torsion this puts on the girder. Option #2 eliminates (or drastically reduces) torsion but I'm not completely sure if it is technically permitted. Option #3 is similar to #2 but just with a steel beam. The span is 19 feet so #3 may win out just due to load and deflection criteria but I'd like to know how others would approach the detailing to this.

Lastly, does this kind of change warrant cutting in vertical joints to the brick at both sides of the new girder?

 

[GaStruct]

The typical detail for this scenario is similar to your option #3 with the following modifications

1. shift the steel beam to the right to allow the veneer to continue down
2. weld a plate to the bottom flange of the beam to support the veneer

 

[jerseyshore]

The typical detail for this scenario is similar to your option #3 with the following modifications

1. shift the steel beam to the right to allow the veneer to continue down
2. weld a plate to the bottom flange of the beam to support the veneer

I agree with this. Same as any other steel building.

If you have to use wood and go with option 1 that can work as well. Just make sure you use engineered lumber and design bolts accordingly. I don't think torsion would be too much of an issue with flush framing and an angle that high up.

 

[XR250]

Honestly, I think option #2 is fine. I would put an angle iron on the top though and oversize the crap out of the LVL to mitigate creep and their propensity to sag for no reason at all. The contractor will certainly like it better.

 

[TRAK.Structural]

The typical detail for this scenario is similar to your option #3 with the following modifications

1. shift the steel beam to the right to allow the veneer to continue down
2. weld a plate to the bottom flange of the beam to support the veneer

In my case I don't think I can do it quite that way. The ceiling of the addition (left side of section) will be level with the existing ceiling so the brick has to stop higher up. I guess I could use a plate on the top flange instead of the bottom flange, but torsion is still a consideration with this detailing.

Honestly, I think option #2 is fine. I would put an angle iron on the top though and oversize the crap out of the LVL to mitigate creep and their propensity to sag for no reason at all. The contractor will certainly like it better.

Definitely going heavy on the LVL if I take that route. Would you fasten the angle on top down to the beam just to hold it in place?

 

[XR250]

In my case I don't think I can do it quite that way. The ceiling of the addition (left side of section) will be level with the existing ceiling so the brick has to stop higher up. I guess I could use a plate on the top flange instead of the bottom flange, but torsion is still a consideration with this detailing.
View attachment 4553


Definitely going heavy on the LVL if I take that route. Would you fasten the angle on top down to the beam just to hold it in place?

Might as well fasten it.

 

[jerseyshore]

Adding the steel plate to the top flange is also fine. I can't imagine a steel beam is going to have a torsion problem on a house from some brick veneer.

 

[CJLCivilStruct]

Adding the steel plate to the top flange is also fine. I can't imagine a steel beam is going to have a torsion problem on a house from some brick veneer.

In this case it's taking some roof load as well - worth mentioning in the UK it's much more common in my experience to see the plate welded to the bottom flange to pick up the cladding brick with triangular stiffeners if required.

My preference typically (if the cavity width allows) is to have 2 lighter beams over 1 larger one with all the additional fabrication - case by case basis though.

 

[GaStruct]

If you go with option #1 or #2 make sure the LVL is fastened correctly. Contractors usually just sporadically nail them. Check the weight of the brick and if you need lags to transfer to the next ply.

Another option would be to fasten a continuous angle to the stud wall to support the brick. Would eliminate torsion completely.

The IRC has some useful details for wood supporting brick in R703.8.

 

[TRAK.Structural]

The IRC has some useful details for wood supporting brick in R703.8.

I always use double studs when fastening the angle to the wall itself (which is also what the IRC says). Not likely to fly on this job since that wall is existing and this would trigger a lot more work.

 

[rlmengineer]

Designing the temporary support for the existing floor, exterior wall and brick veneer will need to be designed first in order to remove anything. You will have to stage the construction to remove the existing wall, insert the new beam, support columns and footings, if needed. Your temporary support should be spaced to allow workers to install the new beam and brick ledger to the beam. I would grind out the horizontal brick mortar and insert angle iron as part of your temporary support for the existing brick. Keep in mind the contractor may crack the existing drywall if his temporary support work is sloppy. The homeowner and contractor should be informed about secondary damage that needs to be considered.

 

[jerseyshore]

Designing the temporary support for the existing floor, exterior wall and brick veneer will need to be designed first in order to remove anything. You will have to stage the construction to remove the existing wall, insert the new beam, support columns and footings, if needed. Your temporary support should be spaced to allow workers to install the new beam and brick ledger to the beam. I would grind out the horizontal brick mortar and insert angle iron as part of your temporary support for the existing brick. Keep in mind the contractor may crack the existing drywall if his temporary support work is sloppy. The homeowner and contractor should be informed about secondary damage that needs to be considered.

Although most of us aren't designing any temporary support on these jobs, you do make a good point that it needs to be considered. Flush beams in exterior walls are inherently a PITA to install because you don't have the benefit of building temp walls on both sides.

For this it may be easiest to remove extra brick and then add a ledger to support the 2nd floor wall from. In doing so the new angle can be bolted into directly into the studs/ blocking above the beam making this beam choice and design a lot simpler.

 

[RontheRedneck]

I don't like to see brick supported by wood. Obviously wood changes and moves with changes in moisture. Brick does not.

 

[XR250]

I don't like to see brick supported by wood. Obviously wood changes and moves with changes in moisture. Brick does not.

Actually. brick can be affected by moisture.
Lots of instances in construction where brick is supported by wood. IRC lets you sit it on a flimsy roof. Wood garage door headers with lintels attached also.

 

[Mark_J]

Actually. brick can be affected by moisture.

Brick is a sponge for water.

 

[Euler07]

I was also taught never to support masonry using timber. Timber creeps over time and the masonry will eventually crack. Is this different in the US?

In this situation I would probably use a PFC (channel) with the flanges pointing into the building, and an angle welded to the web to support the brick. The shear centre of a PFC is behind the web which will be closer to the brick wall weight.

 

[human909]

I was also taught never to support masonry using timber. Timber creeps over time and the masonry will eventually crack. Is this different in the US?

In this situation I would probably use a PFC (channel) with the flanges pointing into the building, and an angle welded to the web to support the brick. The shear centre of a PFC is behind the web which will be closer to the brick wall weight.

I'll preface by saying I'm no residential expert. But I don't see the issue with timber. You just need to take into account the total deflection including creep. Both steel and timber should work fine and the choice will depend on local preferences and economies.

Underdesign either for deflection and you'll get cracking. Masonry has tighter tolerances, but non masonry can still have issues if you don't design for deflection. I recently saw a town house redevelopment built maybe 15 years ago. The rendered facade on every garage had cracks as the garage lintel was clearly under designed. (I would have guessed the lintel was steel)

 

[TRAK.Structural]

Thanks for all the replies.

I did some preliminary sizing and the client thought I was being overly conservative with the code mandated deflection criteria..........so I told them to find someone else. I did learn a few things from this thread though so not a total loss.

 

[XR250]

I don't think code accounts for existing masonry support in their recommendations. On new construction, the beam will deflect as the masonry is layed. The green masonry will just conform to that. Existing masonry will likely want to just span the opening as a deep beam so we should honor its stiffness if we don't want it to crack.
Some say L/1200.

 

[gte447f]

I'm curious how the rafters for the low roof get fastened to and supported by the brick veneer in a case like this? Brick veneer is not supposed to support structural loads.