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Hmm the images on pages 42 and 43 make my point from the early post. If the slipstream is spiraling then in addition to the yaw to the left caused by the AOA on the vertical fin, then there should also be a ROLL to the right caused by the differential loading of the horizontal surfaces. The...

Seabee's were post ww-ii and probably never used by the military so it wouldn't be at Pensacola. T

AND the problem is further confounded by the issue that the Seabee prop turns the wrong way too...

But Dan, looking at the Seabee side view: http://www.republicseabee.com/Images/Seabeesideview.jpg By the "faith" theory there's absolutely no need to have an offset vertical fin. The fin and rudder are burried symetrically in the spiral, therefore the upper half and the lower half of the fin...

AHHH but...that IS the whole point of this thread! Faith is belief in things unseen. Every other aspect of aerodynamics is mathematically documented. And except for the refrence up on 9 November no one else has put forth mathematical proof that the spiral exists, it's a faith thing that I'm...

The YF-12/A-12/SR-71 family have slab rudders/all moving vertical fins T

You will want to go to each of those aircraft project managers at the depot that work on them and ask for the propriatary loft line drawnings for that weapon system. The structural drawings will be a nightmare to get the data from. Or you could also ask the program manager if they already have...

Thank you Shebly I'll have a hunt for that one.

Kind of like the never ending plane on a conveyor belt problem???? Two schools as to the answer: yes it will, no it won't and neither school will accept the solution from the other side. In the case of this thread, again the NACA papers and the Helicopter down rotor equations have given me...

Vortexman, your statement “The explanation is simple, understandable, and consistent with widely understood aerodynamic knowledge. For some reason, you seem to have an axe to grind here, and I suspect that you are way past the point of saying "Yeah, that makes sense", so I won't hassle you...

Zerosum from the last link "You don’t notice the effect of the helical propwash in cruise, because the aircraft designers have anticipated the situation. The vertical fin and rudder have been installed at a slight angle, so they are aligned with the actual airflow, not with the axis of the...

In the FAA library here in Oklahoma City, S&R was the first published book that I came across it referred to. However, again the point that is over looked is the theory is always used to only explain one phenomina: the need for right rudder in a climb or in slow flight. They always draw the...

Ok, let’s try to close the torque issue and go back to the existence of the spiraling slipstream. I only mentioned torque related issues in my posts in an attempt to close the loops on the discussion. ZEROSUM; on the contrary, the spinning propeller on an aircraft in a steady-state high-power...

Let’s look at these in slightly reverse order: “Why wouldn't you think that a fin exerting that much force laterally would induce significant yaw?” Oh I do fully believe there is a HUGE amount of yaw at high power and high angle of attack situations. I just don’t believe it is due to the...

Gentlemen, I commented on the gyroscopic issue because it is a result of the P factor thrust. You all agree that P-Factor produces a thrust on one side of the fuselage. That thrust, that force is a reaction on the propeller, a spinning gyro. That force just doesn't disappear. It is a...

Wow, I'm goofey, anyone know how to edit one of your own posts on this board?

A friend owns a vari-eze, says it still needs a touch of right rudder in a climb, but not as much as a pusher. My guess on this one is the wing acting as a huge flow straighener on the upper half of the prop arc. So any yaw inducing pfactor will only be the result of thelower half of the prop...

In a climb, due to diferent localized velocity and angle of attack acting on the propeller, P-factor, more localized thrust will be created on the right side of the plane. It is a constant. It is a force that is constant acting on the propeller. That force created at the 3 oclock positon on...

I agree, mostly. However P-factor has two components; the forces affecting the airframe through the gyroscopic precession on the propeller, AND the resultant additional thrust or airflow down the right side of the fuselage or nacelle. If there were no force created by the propeller at the 3...

All down thrust and right thrust can be the result of trying to offset P-factor not the spiraling slip stream. Down thrust principly minimizes trim changes with power changes, BUT it also has the rarely thought about effect of decreasing P factor in a climb. Thus needing less right rudder...