240 supply voltage harmoniser for domestic property 100A 16

[David108108]

Hi everyone,

I'm a newbie here, and this is my first post. Thanks for taking the time to read through it.

I have a client who recently used an EMI Power Line Monitor to measure noise on their mains supply. This device can be plugged into any socket around the house to detect noise. Here’s a brief description of the monitor:

Product Description:

The Line EMI Meter measures electromagnetic interference (EMI) in a single-phase AC power line. It plugs into a wall outlet and does not require a battery. The device immediately displays total line noise in millivolts peak to peak (ranging from 1999.9 mVp-p with a resolution of 0.1 mVp-p) within the frequency range of 10 KHz to 10 MHz (where sensitivity is half of the maximum sensitivity). It also has a speaker that plays the sound of the EMI, amplitude demodulated, which helps identify the source of the interference (e.g., AM or shortwave radio stations, motors, or electric arcs).

A good reading on this meter would be around 400 mV, but my client was getting a consistent reading of 1400 mV, indicating a significant increase in noise. I asked if there had been any recent changes in the house or nearby. Here’s what he mentioned:

The neighbor on the left installed solar panels.
The neighbor on the right installed a garden WiFi booster.
There were recent works carried out on his street.
His detached house has a TT earthing arrangement. Here’s my preliminary diagnosis:

There could be DC transient voltage from the neighbor’s solar panel inverter, possibly causing DC leakage to ground.
The WiFi booster from the neighbor on the right might be causing interference.
The street works might have introduced more noise into the incoming mains supply.
The EMI monitor registered the strongest noise level when plugged into a kitchen socket, but high readings were also observed in various other parts of the house. This likely rules out a faulty circuit.

I would greatly appreciate any input or advice to assist my client in resolving this issue.

Thank you!

 

[David108108]

3DDave:

I truly appreciate your concern for my client's health and your perspective that we might be focusing too much on EMFs instead of addressing the core issue, which you have diligently outlined.

You make very valid points, and I will certainly discuss this with the client to find out what steps he has taken to address the copper toxicity. He did mention undergoing chelation therapy when I asked him about it. I would also like to ensure he is aware of all the symptoms and causes you have listed. This issue has been ongoing for two decades, and he mentioned that there were several articles written about him, which he plans to share with me.

I understand that focusing solely on EMF mitigation might not address the root cause of his health issues. However, he mentioned that he can function normally and feels quite well when inside his bedroom, which is a Faraday cage. Conversely, he feels worse in the rest of the house, especially the kitchen, and even more so when he is out and about. If there is anything I can do to improve his life, I am certainly willing to help. For me, it's not about the money. I live far from the client and have plenty of work in my local area.

My personal connection to a friend who suffers severely from EHS has made me acutely aware of how difficult and stressful this situation can be. My friend has had countless blood tests from many specialists, including those at the renowned Breakspear Clinic, who specialize in EHS and other conditions like chemical sensitivity.

https://www.breakspearmedical.com/conditions/electrical-sensitivity/

Thank you.

 

[waross]

Most of the body is conductive to one degree or another.
The blood vessels are fairly good conductors, hence a shock between both hands may travel through the blood vessels and through the heart.
The skin has quite low conductivity but once the skin is broken, the underlying tissue is a much better conductor.
I once found myself designing the electrical installation for an operating theatre and did a lot of research on the conductivity of a body on the operating table.
One thing that I learned was that the specific resistance of the floor of an operating room must be between strick limits and that there is a standardized testing procedure to determine the resistivity of the floor.
The floor must be almost non-conductive so as not to shock anyone standing on the floor, but must have enough conductivity to avoid static buildup.
A static spark may ignite an explosive anesthetic gas in a patient's lungs.
The survival rate of such an internal explosion is zero.
A surgeon who was responsible for introducing each new anesthetic into the local hospital as they came on the market, told me that such explosions had happened, triggered by the use of high frequency scalpels.
Medical staff had also been injured and killed in such explosions.
But, that brings up a point;
Does your client have carpets?
May he be sensitive to static buildup?

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[JJ_Roy]

I'm not going to get into the cause of you client's malaise or if I'm a believer in EHS or not..... I think FacEngrPE noted you need a spectrum analyzer to identify the source. A better option would be a EMI Test Receiver as it's purpose built for what you're trying to accomplish. Some models can be connected to the "mains" voltage as well. Using the client's EMI meter connected to an extension cord is probably never going to pinpoint the source....

In the USA, you can rent these from most high-end test equipment rental companies. They often also rent the appropriate antennas required to pinpoint EMI sources. We always rent them as they're often very expensive instruments and have a high calibration cost. Plus, there's always a newer (and better) model released every few years! The ownership costs don't justify the amount of use they'd get at our company. Rental is also an easy way to pass on the equipment cost to the client especially when you need specialized equipment to do the work.

BTW, our company never takes on work that has a "emotional and/or psychological" component as the work is sometimes mentally draining on the employees, hard to not get emotionally involved, and almost never gets to resolution that satisfies the client. This is some of the many things to think of when taking on work or clients.

One quick question, what are you going to do if you pinpoint the source outside of the client's home?

 

[David108108]

Update my client has plugged the EMI monitor into an extension lead and wondered around the house placing it at all angles and elevations. No change in the reading. He has also plugged it into another property and the reading is 200-300 mv.

And there are no carpets in the parts of the house that the client uses.

 

[David108108]

JJ Roy:

Thanks for your post and I do like the look of the high end EMI Test Receiver the only snag is that I am based in the UK. Do you know if there is an equivalent for the UK market?

If we pinpoint the EMI source and it has a well defined direction, the objective will be to shield that section of the house from the exterior using a galvanised or stainless steel mesh with holes per inch that will be adequate to mitigate or eliminate the undesirable EM Frequency.

I totally get you point about not getting emotionally involved. It was certainly draining when I spent months trying to help my friend come up with a solution to improve his living conditions.

Thank you

 

[David108108]

another update: I heard back from a main seller of the EMI Line Monitor and he sounded convinced that if I install a couple of dirty electricity filters it will fix the issue. Not sure what to make of that.

 

[JJ_Roy]

It looks like ElectroRent (test equipment rental company) offers rentals in the UK and they have the Rhode & Schwarz EMI Test Receiver (ESR7) available for rent.

 

[David108108]

JJ Roy
:

At £73 000 these instruments are more for the industrial sector it would appear. I am dealing with an issue in a detached domestic house. I doubt very much that my client would have the budget to even hire the ESR7 not to mention that it would also require a certain amount of training to use it correctly and efficiently. But it’s great to know that these exist, and I will contact the company to inquire about training for my professional development.

Thank you

 

[waross]

I totally get you point about not getting emotionally involved

I concur. I am starting to feel the beginnings of emotional involvement.
However, I feel that I must rephrase an earlier comment.
Based on many years of successful roubleshooting;
If a problem persists despite all efforts to correct it, then the problem has been misdiagnosed.
The problem is not EMI.
The problem is chronic malaise.
If the cause is EMI, it may well by a frequency above or below the range being tested.
How do you shield a magnetic field?
You don't.
You may shunt a field around an area with the use of magnetic material.
Consider two magnetic poles about a foot apart with a strong field between them.
Then insert an iron object into the field. The lines of force will concentrate in the iron or other magnetic material.
The iron may be moved to one side of the original field area and even a short distance outside the original field pattern.
This is not blocking or shielding, it is diverting.
You may counteract a magnetic field with an opposing field.
A conductive barrier is placed at right angles to the field.
The field induces potentials which cause eddy currents in the barrier.
This field opposes the field that is causing it and little of the field passes.
But, understand, to be effective the barrier msut be conductive enough to allow eddy currents strong enough to create a near equal opposing field.
The conductivity is a function of both the material and the thickness of the material.
If the EMI is a previously undetected strong low frequency field, a tinfoil barrier may not have sufficient conductivity.
How has the cell phone test worked out?
Cell phone signals are ubiquitous.
However you should detect an increased field when calling out on a cellphone.
Other possible unrecognized causes;
A strong case has been made to check and either treat or rule out,Wilson's Disease.
Finally, and this one is the hardest, your client may have a psychological need for untreatable condition.
Not my area of expertise, but I have encountered problems that I was prevented from solving.

[Anecdote Alert]I still look back on this with ammusement.
Our company was installing new lumber kilns at a saw mill.
Due to a miscommunication, the kilns drew much more steam than the main boiler provided.
The mill had a second, back-up boiler but it could not be used because of condensate return difficulties.
I was responsible for instrumentation and tried to solve the problem.
I found it almost impossible to get information.
Questions went unanswered or were deflected.
I couldn't solve a condensate problem until I knew what the problem was, and I couldn't find out.
Then someone took me aside and explained;
"Bill, Ben the Head Steam Engineer has a class 3 ticket.
If the mill ever runs both boilers together then the Head Steam Engineer must have a class 2 ticket and Ben's out of a job.
Ben is not going to let you solve the condensate problem."
Misdiagnosis again.
The problem was not the condensate.
The problem was Ben's qualifications.
I moved on to finding a way to restrict the steam demands of the kilns to what steam was available.
In the end, not a condensate problem but a qualification problem.[/AA]


--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[Heaviside1925]

OP,

I install a couple of dirty electricity filters it will fix the issue

Are these cheap? If so, DO IT!!. There is very little logic (in an engineering sense) to your clients' problems, though, I'm sure it makes sense to them. If this is cheap fix and provides them relief, you are done, happy client.
In reading the progression of these posts and responses, I tend to think that you are attempting some sort of juxtaposition between known science and your clients fears, in the attempt to come to logical solution. I suspect you are doing it out of empathy, along with concern that the lack of your own knowledge could "hurt" your client. JJ Roy made an excellent point about not becoming emotionally involved, to which, I think you are. The mixing of emotion and science has you grasping at scientific reasons to explain psychological responses. By posting on an engineering forum, you are implying you want to approach this as an engineer but you keep going back to your client's emotional issues and not wanting to disturb them, as a friend. Pick a side!
As a friend, you can nicely humor them, go down the rabbit holes with them and provide some guard rails to keep them from hurting themselves more emotionally, physical and financially. Not to try and pile on, but I, like the some other posters, are concerned your client may be suffering from a known ailment and I think you could be doing your friend a huge and potentially harmful disservice by not fully addressing a known medical condition.
As an engineer, first off, these devices your client is purchasing, even though they look like they have some legitimacy to them, as a whole, do not and will not aid in diagnosing or troubleshooting anything. I am not a signals or antenna expert and I have been holding off on any explanation in hopes one would comment on here but since one hasn't, here goes my brief, I'm sure slightly inaccurate, attempt, but will hopefully communicate the meat of things. To transmit RF, one needs: a transmitter, i.e. source / a propagation medium, i.e. free air, wave guide, RF cable / a receiver, i.e. impedance matched antenna, or reportedly your client. Take note of the impedance matched antenna, not only does the antenna length matter but it also needs the proper impedance for resonance. For dirty power to effect your client, the little mV signals riding on the AC would need an impedance matched resonator, then amplified to the point where they could be re-transmitted through free air, then enter your client's body to then be re-induced on a conductor that's impedance matched to some sort of resonant cavity for your client to feel anything. This is a tremendous amounts of steps to assume are happening. Would it not make much more sense that an RF signal from some external source, i.e. a real transmitter, already being transmitted through free air, is the cause? Consider your client feels the best inside the faraday caged room that shields them from external RF travelling through the free air and has nothing to do with dirty power.

From an engineering perspective, waross's advice of unplugging this line power EMI deceive and throwing it in the trash would be most appropriate. You can also do this as a friend by explaining to your client, that the people selling this stuff are preying on your client's fears and ignorance.

Solutions, I again bring up time, distance and shielding.
Time: consider a quick exposure may be tolerable to your client, you could recommend your client better organize their day being outside of their faraday caged bedroom. With timed returns to the bedroom for recovery. Not a great life but if it provides some relief, it may be helpful.
Distance:FacEngrPE brought up an excellent point about Greenbank WV. There are many "radio silent" areas in this world and likely many in the UK. Consider that your client's investment in all sorts of stuff to detect the cause may have and be better spent seeking a different living location.
Shielding: If the faraday cage in the bedroom works, then there's your answer. Stop here, done, solved. I will repeat that waross's stucco idea is likely the most cost effective and ascetic. If ascetics are not a concern, just wrap the house in wire mesh using the existing faraday cage as a go-by for mesh size. If your client really wants to go all in, there are also mesh suits your client could wear. If shielding provides your client relief then this should be your focus.
Another option for shielding. I know in the US, communication bunkers have been popular to rehabilitate into a residence and I would suspect these are available in the UK as well. Anything with thick dense walls and/or underground will provide a reduction if not elimination of most RF.

 

[David108108]

Waross:

Love the anecdotes whatever you do don't hold back with them. )

"Finally, and this one is the hardest, your client may have a psychological need for untreatable condition."
You hit the nail on the head here with my friend who is EHS.
How did I find out? Well the suspicion grew over a period of a couple of years and culminated in recent months when I and a close friend of his offered to build him a faraday cage on wheels aka a shielded camper where he could go live on a friends farm and start to recover far away from the big city and all that that entails: Wifi, smart meters, Rf, EMI, etc. We thought his eyes would light up and he would be over the moon. It was the exact opposite. He wasn't remotely interested. That is when the penny dropped.

 

[David108108]

Heaviside1925:

Thanks for weighing in with such a thought-provoking post.

I am not getting emotionally involved but I wanted to be certain that I am not going to lead my client down the garden path and charge him for work that is not going to help him in an engineering sense. Will post more later.....

 

[waross]

That you very much for sharing that with us, David108108.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[wayne440]

Another thought- "Recalibrate" the EMI meter to show a significant drop in level and see if the placebo effect comes in to play. The human mind is a wonderful thing, if a person thinks they should feel better they often will.