$25/hr no overtime pay for PE with 9 yrs exp 7

[westheimer1234]

i got laid off recently. no job openings in my field at least until mid next year.
i work for EPC oil and gas.
i have a PE with 9 yrs exp.

i got a job offer for $25/hr, no 401k, no overtime pay
from a small company.

i was thinking accept it and leave later.
but my interviewer said his biggest fear is accepting me
and then me leaving after a few months.

they are looking for permanent position.

 

[ash9144]

If you don't have something else available and that's best for right now, then take it. You can't worry about employer's fears being realized when you find something more in line with your salary requirements. It's more than you can make in retail.

 

[Maury]

For 50K a year with no benefits for an experienced engineer, this company better get used to people coming and going.

 

[KENAT]

As much as I hate leading people on, at the end of the day that's his problem, if they can't pay enough to keep people, then they'll have to accept the associated risk.

Heck, to over use a cliche, even if he found his ideal candidate who swore on the life of his children that he'd work there till he died, if he gets hit by a bus the next day that hasn't really helped him.

There is no such thing as permanent anymore, if there truely ever was, unforseen things happen.

So, while I'd have trouble promising I'd stay when I knew I'd jump at the first opportunity, I wouldn't turn down the opportunity if it's what's best for me and more importantly my family.

Mid next year is a ways off, are you happy taking unemployment till then? Financially can you afford to? Even if you wait, will the big gap in employment be an issue? Not sure how true it is in engineering specifically, but statistically the longer you are out, the harder it is to get a job (or so I've read).

They can get away with offering this kind of money in this climate, they are essentially taking advantage of the bad economy. Fair enough, but they have to be willing to have a better economy taken advantage of by employees.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[WL123]

Take it! I've been out of work for 8 months, there is not much out there!

 

[WL123]

Unemployment Compensation just pays the bills.

 

[PJones]

Counter-offer to $75k. You don't get what you don't ask for. Sometimes you don't get what you do ask for. Fortune favors the bold.

 

[KENAT]

Asking for more is a good point, though I got the impression the 50k might be take it or leave it from the OP

thread731-254534 - are you ready to be this poor guy?

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[westheimer1234]

i just realized to hell with him..
if he is unethical enough to take advantage of me by offering me this salary, i'll be unethical as well accepting this offer and leaving him once i get a good job offer

 

[purdue87]

i don't think it's unethical. i just think that's probably all he can pay. read KENAT's statement again.

Thanks,
Scott

 

[apsix]

Take it, but be honest.
Like any other job (poorly paid or not), you would leave it if a sufficiently better offer came up elsewhere.

 

[tygerdawg]

No need to cop these attitudes. It's a tough economy and he's bottom-feeding. So the company can't or refuses to pay suitable wages & benefits. Maybe they're so badly run that he can't afford anything more. Maybe he's funding his extravagant lifestyle at the expense of his employees. Maybe he's desperately trying to keep his company afloat in bad times. Maybe it'll be the most thrilling satisfying job you'll ever have and you'll wonder why the guy isn't asking you to pay HIM for the priveledge.

Some options come to mind:
1. Counteroffer a suitable amount.
2. Inform the guy you can't take a full-time salaried position like this, and you'll consider his offer as a recurring 90-day contract position.
3. Blow it off, keep looking.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Virtuoso Robotics Engineering

http://www.bluetechnik.com

 

[PEDARRIN2]

There are a lot of factors that could be at play here.

A lot of smaller companies don't offer 401k - and the issue of whether engineers should be paid overtime has been debated. Do they offer a bonus at the end of the year? Do they offer flex time where the extra hours are translated to increased time off? Do they offer health insurance? Some companies offer lower base salaries but do offer other perks.

There are times when the company thinks/realizes you might be overqualified for what they are offering.

I almost didn't get hired because the president of the company thought that someone with my degree and experience would not want to stay with his company very long or was overqualified for the position. I didn't think that, got hired on a part time basis for a couple months, then hired full time and have been here about 6 years.

These times are also tough on companies, too. He might be not able to pay you what you think you deserve because if he did, he wouldn't be able to stay afloat.

It could be the company knows they are not the most enticing for what they want to hire. Maybe the last few people in the position did just what they feared and they are looking for somebody who is not going to use them as a temporary stop on their career path.

You could also have salary expectations that are not in line with the type of work this company does. You state you come from the EPC oil and gas field. Maybe this company is not in that field and the salary for 9 yr experienced PE is different in the company's field.

I realize there are not "permanent" positions anymore, but to take a professional job for a few months until a better offer presents itself - to me is unethical and dishonest, especially since the company has expressed its desire for a "permanent" employee.

 

[racookpe1978]

Counter-offer 65K (75 "feels" a bit too high,but I can't quantify that feeling), accept his offer in return and work professionally = DON'T go interviewing every phone that comes but equally simply leave your name on the local job web pages. Prove your value (after six months) and ask for a salary review and progress/status review.

Make sure he knows your real value at the six month point, 1 year point, 2 year point. If after 2 years, he is still not paying you adequately, then look at the local environment and see what has changed.

 

[moltenmetal]

If he's a small private company and he wants you to help him out by accepting a (vastly) sub-par salary, counter-offer with a proposal that you be given a piece of the action if and when he makes a profit. Structure this so that if he makes a profit typical for his industry, he pays you a salary typical of that industry. If he does better than average, then so do you. That makes you less a chump employee taking his bottom-feeder salary because you have no choice, and more of a potential business partner who is willing to share some of his pain for some of his future gain. But accept no vague promises- get it in writing.

If the position is one of cubicle-filler rather than one where you have any legitimate chance of helping the owner make it profitable enough to pay its people properly, the shared profit argument is pointless. But even as a pure employee, I've learned that it never hurts to ask. If you accept the $50k without even ASKING for more, you'll be establishing yourself as a chump. That puts you in a disadvantaged negotiating position if and when you find out you really like the place and the people you work with and the work itself, and the only thing making you want to leave is the money and the way it makes you feel about yourself.

As far as the guilt and blame thing, get over it. This is business- people trading services and goods for money. Offering a low salary is not unethical, nor is accepting one, nor is leaving a company for a better salary- even after a short time. Compelling utterly uncompensated overtime, violating employment contract conditions, making verbal agreements about potential future salary or benefits that are denied later- those are all unethical.

 

[dgowans]

westheimer,

It is the job of a hiring manager to bring in the right person for what the company needs, both immediately and long term. It's your job to take care of yourself and your family. If these two things don't correlate and you are hired and leave shortly thereafter I would place the blame on the person doing the hiring, provided you are completely honest in your dealings with the company during recruitment.

That being said, if you accept this job and go into it with the attitude you displayed in your post from 22 Sep 09 20:30 I would not expect things to go well. Try as you might to prevent it, this attitude will in all likelihood spill over into your work.

 

[ajack1]

At no point does the OP say that the job requires a PE engineer with 9 years experience, all he does say is the job is not in the field he has 9 years experience in.

If the world’s greatest rocket scientist gets a job flipping burgers, he is only ever going to earn the going rate for flipping burgers not designing rockets.

Whilst 52K might not be good money for a PE with 9 years experience you will find some very good people willing to work for that kind of money especially in today’s economy.

With any new start (however highly qualified) there is a settling in expense especially if they are working in a new field, it is perfectly understandable why the company would be concerned about him jumping ship at the first available opportunity.

The one thing this does highlight is why people can be seen as overqualified and why employers are reluctant to employ someone who is. Personally I think the company would be mad to take anyone on who feels the way the OP does, at the end of the day who is going to benefit from it?

 

[ggordil]

I say you take the job, but keep looking.

Your number one priority is you and your family if you have one. It is NOT your problem to worry about him and his company. It is obvious his priority is himself or company and not his employees.

Do not let this guy guilt you in to staying at a job that pays less than most engineers make right out of college. I bet if the situation were the other way, as in you would be asking him to take a job that paid so little, he would leave you stranded the first offer he got.

With 9 years and a PE you won't need his reference for another job.

 

[jgailla]

If I was out of work I'd be happy to get $25/hr.

 

[PLukacovic]

Take it.
Sure, the salary is insulting, but at least it's a salary. My college roommate just took a job for $38k without blinking an eye b/c it's better than nothing. He's a recent grad, but it's sort of the same situation as you.
Take the job, but keep looking.

I hope this helps, and I hope you can make a decision you're confortable living with.