$25/hr no overtime pay for PE with 9 yrs exp 7

[westheimer1234]

i got laid off recently. no job openings in my field at least until mid next year.
i work for EPC oil and gas.
i have a PE with 9 yrs exp.

i got a job offer for $25/hr, no 401k, no overtime pay
from a small company.

i was thinking accept it and leave later.
but my interviewer said his biggest fear is accepting me
and then me leaving after a few months.

they are looking for permanent position.

 

[abusementpark]

In my region of the country $25/hr is a low end offer for entry level positions. IMO, the offer is pathetic for a PE with 9 years of experience. I wouldn't feel bad about taking the job and leaving when something better comes around.

If he wants to pay entry level money then he needs to find an entry level candidate.

 

[purdue87]

PJones,
something doesn't add up... a PE with 9 yrs experience is worth (only) $75k/yr but the general consensus is that the same PE consulting for himself is worth a minimum of roughly $75/hr. ??? why is he not starting his own business?...

Thanks,
Scott

 

[GregLocock]

That's only a 100% markup. That is way short on what is required for a succesful business. A minimum multiplier of 3 is typical, and I have seen 10 (ouch, that's defence work for you)

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIGlease see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[tickle]

My post was to try and diffuse some of the "evil employer" undertones that are prevalent through this thread.

If you go in to a job with a negative attitude - I am only here under suferance until something better comes along - who is going to win? Each day will be a drag, the employer will be p1ssed, negative references (formal or informal), etc etc

Whereas if you go in with a positive attitude - this job is the best job I can get, I am going to get something out of it - you may actually gain something.

If a more lucrative job comes along, you are in a much better position to negotiate with employer if you are an asset to them. Hey, if they sees you as doing a poor job, under sufferance, he may get rid of you!

And so if the engineering job is going to work out bad for you because of the attitude, then the time is better spent flipping burgers (whatever the short term economic disadvantages).

 

[vc66]

And so if the engineering job is going to work out bad for you because of the attitude, then the time is better spent flipping burgers (whatever the short term economic disadvantages).

No. It's not. If you're in the engineering field and want to stay in the engineering, and you have a choice between a low-paying engineering job and flipping burgers--you're an idiot, if you choose the burger job. Regardless of attitude.

Of course that's only my opinion, but I feel like someone else has to agree with me on that.

V

 

[KirbyWan]

The best way to deal with any job offer is honestly. I think the best suggestion above was for a short term renewable contract position. Say that the offer of 50K is too low for a permanent position but you would be willing to fill the gap for a few months while the employer continued to look for someone more suited for that position and while you continued to look for a position more in line with your experience. At 50K per year he is obviously looking for an entry level candidate, which you are not. You can help him bridge the gap in his team while he helps you bridge the gap in your employment. If I was this employer this might be a great opportunity. You could not only do the work, but help with recruiting the new position and training the new hire where your experience would be even more valuable. This is what I might call a win-win situation. And no one is being false or underhanded. Maybe I'm just old school, but I do feel honor is worth the price. Just because others are dishonest does not motivate me to race to the bottom of the moral ladder to keep up. There will always be dishonest people, but we always have to choice not to be.

-Kirby

Kirby Wilkerson

Remember, first define the problem, then solve it.

 

[vc66]

At 50K per year he is obviously looking for an entry level candidate, which you are not.

That's not necessarily true. He may be looking for a PE with 9 years of experience, he just doesn't want to pay that much.

V

 

[KENAT]

I have to back vc66 on this one. Maybe 50k is all he has for whatever reason but he may want/need more experience than a new grad. Maybe not 9 years at PE but still more.

As the employer you're going to look to get maximum bang for the buck, considering other factors like probable length of stay. So, he's taking advantage of the economy to even entertain the idea of someone with 9 years xp.

However, trying to predict likely length of stay is futile because there are so many factors to consider, some of them completely unknowable (the, "will he get hit by a bus" factor).

Depending on circumstances, maybe negotiating with him has scope, it's not clear from the OP. However you may also negotiate yourself out of a needed job.

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[ewh]

He may have a valid requirement, but it still isn't reasonable.

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[NomLaser]

No one has commented (except someone early on) that maybe the requirements for the job don't require a PE. There are a lot of engineering jobs that are in exempt industries where you won't need a stamp. $50k isn't a horrible offer in an exempt industry (yes it's low but not insulting) especially given the state of the economy. You can't expect to be compensated for experience or education that don't line up with the job requirements.

If I were in your shoes, I would calculate the minimum offer that you can take to pay the bills. Then I would try to negotiate a higher wage and start off around $60k. If they come back and say that $50k is all that they can pay then you have to make a decision. If you really want some good advice, post this in Monster's forums and see what their career advisers suggest. They are usually pretty helpful.

 

[ewh]

Of course, on Monster "you're" mileage may vary...

"Good to know you got shoes to wear when you find the floor." - [small]Robert Hunter[/small]

 

[ajack1]

Yes that was exactly my point Nomlaser, a PE that may not be required and 9 years experience in an unrelated field are worthless.

Everything has a value, it doesn’t matter how much I paid for my house or stocks they are only worth what someone is prepared to pay for them at today’s rate.

All this that offer is insulting etc is complete rubbish, they have made an offer take it or leave it. If anyone is truly worth more then they will go out and find someone who is willing to pay it, if they are not out there then you are not worth more.

As I said earlier I think the company would be mad to take on someone with the attitude of the OP.

 

[patprimmer]

Will they promise that when you no longer suit them that they will not fire you. I very much doubt.

You need not declare it, but you can treat them as you reasonably expect they would treat you.

Regards
Pat
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[atlas06]

what part of the country is that, where 9 years plus PE cannot find a job over $25/hr?
Not worth sticking around such a region.

 

[westheimer1234]

My PE and 9 years exp is VERY related. I'll be designing STEEL towers, etc.. I've designed steel structures for 9 years.

I live in Houston, and ALL EPC companies in Houston are not hiring as of the moment.
I dont have building or bridge experience.

Anyhow, I'll start this Monday.
I dont think it's wrong to work for a company and still post your resume in Monster.
Besides, they are not paying me to look for work,
they pay me to do my job which I will do.
What I do in my free time, whether look for work or not, is none of their businees.

 

[moltenmetal]

With a handle like Westheimer, I wonderered if you were in Houston, but thought- it couldn't be- that's the place where all the "don't worry- we'll train you!" recruitment has been going on for the past few years?!?!

All booms bust, eventually, and when they do, a boomtown is not a nice place to be. I hope you find something more reasonable soon, Westheimer. But if it doesn't, don't be afraid to get out of Dodge. I wouldn't suggest western Canada, as the bloom's off the wild rose there too.

Then again, marrying yourself to one industry and one class of employers (oil and gas EPCs) isn't all that smart a career move either. Don't have any bridge or building experience? Better GET some- that'd be worth a pretty steep pay cut in my opinion.

 

[ScottyUK]

"Then again, marrying yourself to one industry and one class of employers (oil and gas EPCs) isn't all that smart a career move either."

Well, the power industry has been a safe haven for the full careers of a fair number of engineers and at present the industry is losing them faster than they can replace them. Some industries are less prone to cyclic boom and bust - those industries can be a very good place to tightly ally yourself to.


----------------------------------

If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[apsix]

"Then again, marrying yourself to one industry and one class of employers (oil and gas EPCs) isn't all that smart a career move either."

I suspect that it's an over-generalisation. In this increasingly complex market specialists will always be required.

 

[moltenmetal]

Sure, apsix, if you want to be unemployed whenever the cyclic industry these "specialists" are employed in enters its down-cycle...They've just worked for oil and gas EPCs because that's where the work has been in their town.

The OP's a structural engineer, not an oil reservoir or subsea specialist etc. from what I can figure. If they want a better chance of decent employment in the down cycle, they need broader skills. Oil and gas is in the down-cycle worldwide- it's not a simple matter of moving house.

 

[Waidesworld]

I once heard that the true value of an employer was not how he hired people but how he let them go when times were tough. In this situation the hiring company is expecting gold for the price of peanuts and should expect someone to move on if they don't pay enough.
When I moved first to the US I was offered a position below my experience level but I took it for the experience. I left it 10 months later for almost double the money. I explained that the money was a main reason for why I left and the employer accepted it. Didn't like it, but I noticed he wasn't putting his hand in his pocket to keep me either.
So look at it from the employers perspective and take the job for you. Keep looking for better and more suited work to your desired payscale. It's out there, despite the recession.

drawn to design, designed to draw