$25/hr no overtime pay for PE with 9 yrs exp 7

[westheimer1234]

i got laid off recently. no job openings in my field at least until mid next year.
i work for EPC oil and gas.
i have a PE with 9 yrs exp.

i got a job offer for $25/hr, no 401k, no overtime pay
from a small company.

i was thinking accept it and leave later.
but my interviewer said his biggest fear is accepting me
and then me leaving after a few months.

they are looking for permanent position.

 

[RoyTyrell]

I also live and work in houston as a civil and sometimes structural engineer - several points:

First, this was an insulting offer, however, turn it into a business arrangement. What I would do is tell the guy that I would be very interested in helping him with his projects under a non-exclusive contract arrangement. Get your own professional insurance coverage (it's actually pretty cheap right now) and tell him you will bill him by the hour as a sub-consultant. This is win-win for both parties - he doesn't have to pay unemployment or health insurance, you are free to pursue other work and set the parameters of the relationship. You work when and where you chose, you provide him with the finished product according to a written contract and he get the quality work of a professional engineer with no further employment obligations. of course, tell him that the hourly rate will be in excess of $25 (I would say $70/hr is fair market)

If he doesn't go for this - I would think the guy is on an ego trip and simply wants to abuse you for your credentials for as little money as possible.

 

[nuche1973]

I'd take the job and re-evaluate the situation a year later. Everything is negoitable.

 

[csd72]

westheimer1234,

take the job, tell them what they want to hear. If tey really wanted to keep you they would pay you a decent rate.

Here in the UK oil and gas industry structural engineers get at least 50 pounds ($US75) per hour but this is a recession and beggars cant be choosers. Wait until things pick up before ytou move on.

 

[BigInch]

Don't buy that line of crap. They know damn well that their policy is to use, abuse and dispose. They want a pulse (not necessairily from a still warm body) sitting in every chair, where, if there are arm rests, its only so the dead guys don't fall completely off the chair, ... so they can charge their client $150/h and still hold back on the grins. Their current contract is only for 9 to 18 months of work and if they don't get another one by then they will tell you to please not slam the door on the way out. If they do get another and you haven't left yet, they will have to get and set the net out on the street again and see what falls in. You see there is always some guy, even some good guys, that needs a job for some reason or another.

Tell him simply that life s**ks and he SHOULD worry, but you know he won't because he really doesn't give a s*** and you'll start Monday and be gone as soon as you find a $25.50/h rate. He'll respect you for being a really wise SOB and go back to checking his nets.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[patprimmer]

Biginch has summed it up exactly right.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[BigInch]

Oh, and don't you worry about leaving for 25.50 either. Later on, if you happen to need a job again and these guys just happen to have a contract, I promise that they will take you back. NO questions asked.

Backlog rules the world for them. As long as they have a backlog, you're safe, if they don't, don't expect to be around for more than 2 weeks ... maximum. There are very few exceptions to that rule. Very very few. I know of only ONE, but engineers still run that company.

**********************
"Pumping accounts for 20% of the world’s energy used by electric motors and 25-50% of the total electrical energy usage in certain industrial facilities."-DOE statistic (Note: Make that 99% for pipeline companies)

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[ctopher]

Fine tuning of grammar, punctuation, and spelling can also help your career.

Chris
SolidWorks 09 SP4.1
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[Electic]

I'm inclined to say take the job and see what happens; but I also am angered when I think back on the years I wasted being underappreciated because I didn't want to move my family.

 

[rtmote]

RoyTyrell has a good idea.

Are you willing to relocate for work?
Are you on LinkedIn?
Have you signed up for

http://www.oilandgasjobsearch.com?

I understand BigInch's comments all too well but they don't help right now. It is survival and hanging on for a better day.

I think the salary is criminal and can only be a short term solution. Better to keep active and positive. I have been in this situation before and survived.

I believe the economic climate is a great opportunity for engineers to collaborate and create a new business model for the EPC business. The current defaulting one really is bad. Oil and Gas companies need to pay engineers who manage not pay managers who engineer. This will be cheaper, faster and better. In the current model OG clients are throwing money out the window paying managers for cheap engineering.





Robert Mote

http://www.motagg.com

 

[adkr]

Hello All,

The last couple of times I saw something like this, that particular highly qualified individual working for cheap becoame the reason why no one else received a raise.

Thankfully the first scumbag employer who pulled this ran the business into the ground and went bankrupt years ago, and the second one isn't much better off, stil limping along, but he has a high employee turnover rate.

I'm just speaking of my experiences with the HR folks who, during a year end review told me that... "We can't pay you more as a weldor(no raises that year), when we have a fully capable experienced weldor/welding engineer(had bachelor's degree and 20 some years experience, just hired a few weeks before) on staff who is making only a couple bucks more an hour than you!"

So I went on making a whopping $9/hr and the welding engineer who was there for a few months was keeping himself busy by looking for another job, keeping the shop wages low, and working for $12/hr. Great guy, it's just that the nimrod employer took advantage of the situation.

Just venting over horrid management and the situations that develop from said management.

Have a good day.

 

[kepharda]

I have to agree with many of the comments here. Striving for honesty and loyalty is great, but I run my professional life as a "FOR PROFIT" enterprise just like my employers.

Does that mean I will leave if someone offers me %1 more? No because I have a business relationship I like, but if someone offered me 15% more, I would have to reevaluate.

My point is this, take a job if you need it, but no way would I stick around for say a year and then start looking, you probably just gave up $20,000.

Back to the issue of "Non Compete Contracts" yes, they are basically unenforcable, I play basketball with a lawyer, and my former employer had me sign one of these clauses so I asked him about how strictly they can be enforced.

His information was just about what was said here, no one can keep you from making a living. He said an Employer could pay you not to work for a competitor/client, but that is really the only way around this.

I doubt may Engr. Firms want to pay someone to sit home for 6-12 months.

this message has been approved for citizen to elect kepharda 2008

 

[moltenmetal]

"Striving for honesty and loyalty is great, but I run my professional life as a "FOR PROFIT" enterprise just like my employers."

Couldn't agree more.

Too many employers and managers use professionalism as a stick with which to beat their professional employees, while reserving the majority of the benefit for themselves. What they're advocating is actually amateurism- doing something for the love of it alone- rather than professionalism, i.e. doing something for a living!

 

[macmet]

This is a very interesting thread. I am actually in a very similar position, although to a lesser extent. However, in my situation I'd have to relocate for this new position. The salary is equal to what I was making when I was laid off a month ago, however, in that job I had not got a raise in 4 years.

I was wondering what all of you think of the idea posted above by Tyger Dawg. Ask for 90 dates at a certain rate and reevaluate after.

In my situation I have a few options I think may be coming up in the next few months, but taking this new position is more money than EI. However, there is a cost of moving to a new city, not to mention the higher cost of living.

 

[PJones]

Purdue87

Sorry I haven't followed this thread for awhile.

"PJones,something doesn't add up... a PE with 9 yrs experience is worth (only) $75k/yr but the general consensus is that the same PE consulting for himself is worth a minimum of roughly $75/hr. ??? why is he not starting his own business?... "

I don't begin to believe a PE with 9 years of relevant experience is only worth $75k/year. Maybe without the PE?

If people keep accepting low offers, employers will keep the offers low. I've seen experienced engineers make less than kids right out of school, because the average starting salary has grown but their own salaries have not. My point is that we all have more control over what we make, as long as we are not afraid to go somewhere else.

 

[apsix]

That's nice in theory PJ, it doesn't quite work if there is a surplus of engineers and others will work for less.

 

[PJones]

It works better than most people think. I've had employers reject my counter-offer, then accept it a month later. I maintain that what you get paid has little to do with what you are worth, and a great deal to do with how bold you are.

It works especially well during recessions. Counter-intuitive, but true.

Also, I should qualify my other statement - I was considering the 9 years of experience as that after the PE. So, a degree + 13 in most jurisdictions. If it is 9 total, that's a different story.

 

[swivel63]

take it. screw his cheap tail later when things get good.

 

[Lion06]

Take it and keep looking. I'm right around $25/hour with no overtime. I get 401(k) contributions. I have no PE, and only 3.5 years of experience and I feel like I'm being taken advantage of, so I can only imagine how you're feeling!

 

[RoyTyrell]

I turned my former employer (Big EPC) into the board of engineers of a certain state (not Texas) for not having any licensed engineers in that state working on a project. I was the only one until I left.

The crap being produced by this company was laughable. And they expected *me* to sign off on it. HAHA! These smug f---s are going to get their license pulled, I warned them for months they were playing with fire.

They are under investigation now.

I started my own shop. already have 2 contracts in just 3 months of marketing > $40,000. (inspection work) not huge but a start. get the ball rolling.

never work for an EPC again.