300 sq. foot safe in 13d system

[twd22285]

Hi all!

I got a question for ya! I am designing a nfpa 13d fire sprinkler system in a 10,000 sq. ft. vacation home in our area (central washington). Needdless to say the guys got loads of money. I noticed during my survey he has 300 sq. ft safe/room. The walls and ceilings are 10" thick concrete and it has a safe door on it, (like you would find on a heavy duty gun safe or at the bank). The AHJ and I are working on finding out weather or not this is required to be sprinklered. I'm posting this to see if any of you have had experience with anything like this in your yrs of service to the fire sprinkler field. We really don't want to have to core drill the concrete, and we don't really feel like sprinkler coverage is necassary in a concrete room with a heavy duty safe door. Does nfpa 13d (2007) 8.6.5 excuse me of providing caverage on this room. Or would it depend on what is being stored in this room? Any help would be much appreciated.
thank you

tony

 

[TravisMack]

13d is for life safety, not property protection. I would venture to say that the door will be shut 99% of the time and only opened to take something in/out. Also, I would say it would take longer than 10 minutes for a fire to break through a 10" concrete wall.

A 13D system is basically there to sound an alarm and buy you 10 minutes to get your family out of the house. If the fire is suppressed, that is just a bonus So, to that note, I would say you should be able to justify eliminating sprinklers in this area for a 13D system.

I have seen some weird things in homes myself. My favorite was the gun range in the home. The AHJ req'd institutional HSW's be put in the gun range. Go figure!

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

 

[twd22285]

Thank you t-mak for the reply! Thats where i'm coming from too. The AHJ is a little goofy tho! They are requiring us to provide dry horizontal sidewalls to cover any area outside[b/] where there is a bbq or fire pit. They are leaning heavily on the side of saving structure regardless of our reminders that its a life saving system not[b/] structure saving. So i'll be curious to see what they come up with. Thanx again for the reply.

tony

 

[TravisMack]

Sounds like Park City, UT. You have to put heads out at the soffits if you are within 50' of natural vegitation, or if you have a BBQ / fire pit. Also, heads in all closets and bathrooms if I remember correctly. They also req'd a 4 head calc for all areas, and a 0.10 density at 130 sq ft spacing in the garages.

That entire concept of a 10 minute life safety system was gone out the door. I don't mind doing above the minimum, and it is good in some cases. However, I haven't heard of hundreds of people dying in homes with fire sprinklers designed in accordance with NFPA 13D.

Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

 

[DonPhillips]

Travis, that sounds more like a 13 system. Do they have a local ordinance with all those requirements or is someone just making it up or applying 13 principals in a 13D system?

Don Phillips

http://worthingtonengineering.com

 

[cdafd]

and the purpose of a 13d system is????

do not have 13d in front of me, but would say no

 

[cdafd]

maybe stretch 8.6.5 nfpa 2003

also maybe use 903.3.1.1 ifc 2003

 

[TravisMack]

Don:

As far as I know, it is a local ordinance. The contractor I work for in that area states that those are the requirements for the area. So, that is what goes in. The only thing you don't have to protect is the concealed combustible spaces.


Travis Mack
MFP Design, LLC

 

[stookeyfpe]

Sounds as if they are using a NFPA 13D system for mitigation of the structure being built in a wildland-urban interface area. They are attempting to expand the use of a NFPA 13D sprinkler system from life safety to property protection. I would not be supportive of this.

 

[twd22285]

Stookey

Our company is definitely not supportive of this but we are at the mercy of the ahj.

thank you all for your input

tony

 

[cdafd]

in the old days didn't one code or standard exempt safety deposit areas/ vaults??