34 years' dilemma for a mechanical engineer. . . . 1

[Lorindo78]

Hello everyone,

I am a mechanical engineer, brilliantly graduated (Master degree) but definitely not equally satisfied by his career.
I got my degree at almost 30, as I was doing some other job in my "young age", many of them related to mechanics (motorcycle repairing). I have been working, for the last three years, in a oil and gas firm, in the commercial / project managing department. At the beginning it was interesting, but now it is getting extremely, extremely boring. So, my sense of frustration is getting higher and higher.

I am considering a change of career, but the economic situation makes me aware that that I have to carefully think about this option. Since I have no experience in design, it may be difficult to find another position as a Mechanical designer. I definitely have the basics from my studies about the mechanic design, but a very limited experience on it.

There are a few fields I would like to consider/explore:

-Welding: I found two courses to get the qualification for "International welding Engineer" (one year course, theoretical + practical) and "International Welding Inspector" (comprehensive, six-months course). It is a fascinating field for me, but I wonder if there is any market for them (not only in Italy but also somewhere else, like Australia, or Canada). They are pretty expensive (about 25 k Euro for them..that for our market is a BIG amount of money), and they are supposed to be the state-of-the-art here in Italy. They are full time course and thus, it's likely I will be forced to quit my job, just to follow them.
The good point is that you can match the theoretical part with the practical part (and, to be honest, I have always loved dirtying my hands...!)

-Finite element alalysis: I was good at math, I like this subject but, again, no direct experience on it. Although the FEM calculation should be one of the basis of the mechanical engineering, in our University there were no courses available for them. That would be my second choice.

The first answer should be "You have to do what makes you happy and satisfied", and I do understand that. However, I have to think about my future possibilities and how I would approach my 50's, for instance.

Any sugestion, thought, consideration?

Thank you, and Merry Christmas!

 

[kingnero]

25k € is a lot for the IWE course, in belgium it's about half of that amount. check with the IWF.
I cannot advise you what to do, but I really liked the IWE course (you see a lot that has at first sight not directly anything to do with welding, but it is all very interesting context which you need to know about to understand essential problems about welding).

IWE's will have plenty of work in the near future in Europe due to changing european laws.

I also wish I was (a lot) better at FEA, yet I believe to be truely proficient in that, you need to do it on a regular basis (not just every few months a simple design). and I do not like to be 100% of my time in the office behind a desk.

 

[Lorindo78]

Hello kingnero,

Thank you for your feedback.

The figure I mentioned (25 k Euro) is the total cost for both courses ( IWI + IWE), including the several transfers and accomodation that I have to undergo to attend the lectures. The course is not held in my city and I will have to flight and rent a flat (sharing it with a colleague). The bare IWE course is about 9k Euro.

FEA is fascinating as well but, as you said, to fully master it (as every subject) you definitely need a lot of practice and a vast amount of different cases.... at least, this is my opinion...another drawback is that, as you mentioned, I do not like either to plan my life under a desk...

Thank you, by the way, for sharing the IWE outlook for the near future!

Paolo

 

[TheTick]

The biggest weakness I see in FEA work is in knowledge of materials and failure modes. Anyone can learn to mesh.

 

[cranky108]

The sad fact is there are jobs out there, and there are people looking. But the crossing of people, skills, and jobs frequently don't happen.

Example: With a 8% local unemployment rate here, we can't find gas engineers (mechinical typically, but also includes chemical, and petrolium).
The issue is the wage rate. Are you making better than welders are, and are the working conditions simular?

I consitered a simular move many years ago, until I saw that as an engineer I could make more than a welder.

Yes it is boring at times, but so are many other things (like spending time with the inlaws). But just remember why you are there (the pay check is nice).

 

[Lorindo78]

@TheTick: Thanks. This is something I will keep in mind if I decide to go to the FEA pathway.

@Cranky: Lucky you: where I live, there are thousands of workers.. it's the job market that is extremely poor (and this is why I am looking forward for something that I can "spend" outside Italy and Europe.) Probably, you twisted my words: my idea is not becoming a "Welder", but a "Welding Engineer". Not sure if you meant the same. Trust me, my wage is ridiculous and the pay-rises are just a dream (it's not only the Italian way of complaining-about-everything...it's our contract, negotiaded by our trade unions). I would totally agree with you, if the salary condition were different.

Thus, a series of circumstances are pushing me to take one step (...forward? ...back?) . I understand that nobody has the crystal ball to consult and to know which choice is better...

 

[cranky108]

Don't get me wrong, the job market is consitered bad here. It's that so few people here have gone to school for any engineering, or have stayed in the engineering field to have experence.

I did miss welding engineer, vs welder. Although welders can find jobs easer here, where as for me to take a new job, I would have to move to another city, or area.

We in general don't have professional trade unions, at least in the utilities area. And in some engineering areas, joining a union could mark you as someone no one wants to hire. Now I am assuming a trade union there is what we call a union. Here there are professional org.s that do not directly press for saleries. They do push saleries studies, in which they publish, but no employer interaction.

Strange how there can be shortages of people and saleries don't go up like they say in economics classes. However my employer has to justify saleries to the customers, who some how believe we should work for free (at least that is what they believe they should pay for our product).

We on the other hand have a reason to stay at one place for at least five years. It's called vesting in retirement plans and etc. So goes the joke about the seven year itch, in which some people only stay with a job for seven years.

If you can make better money by bettering your self, then that's great. It's worth consitering.

 

[Lorindo78]

Cranky,

Don't get me wrong too!! Probably, I did not use the correct words when I mentioned the "trade unions". Working in an Italian factory, operating in the oil and gas/metalmechanic sector means that we have to undergo to the Italian Metalmechanic contract. Every three years, such contract is negotiated by the trade unions: so, no matter if you join them or not, your salary is based on their negotiation. I am not a member of the local trade Union, but I can project what you say (nobody wants to hire you if you are a member, because you will be a "problematic" employee, to use an idiomatic expression ) to our employer too. I am not one of the workers that, at the end of the day, leave the office at 5pm, not really. I definitely do a considerable amount of overtime, if it is really necessary.

The point of making more money investing on my skills (and in particular, in getting the Welding Enginner and Welding Inspector diplomas) is the debated one: is actually worthwile investing on them? Is there any real demand and a kind of shortage of these skills (on general basis)? Or will it just be another diploma to hang over the wall, be proud of it and... that's it?

 

[kingnero]

Talk to people who really know what's going on, and ask them for explaining about EN1090. It has changed very recently, but will be in effect in 2013-2014. From then (I can't say the exact date out of my head) metalworking factories will be obligated to have an IWE (or IWT or IWS, depending on the necessary level of knowledge). See if you can have the latest version of the EN1090, and read it through.
I've got a lot of information, but it is all at work. I'll try to scan the most relevant pages next week/next year.

 

[Lorindo78]

Thank you Kingnero.
Let me translate the IWE flyer from Italian to English. Sorry if there will be some errors on it:

The "International Welding Engineer" represents the highest qualification level expected by EWF (European Welding Federation). Such level satisfies the technical knowledge requsition, defined as complete by the ISO regulation No 14731:2006, as well as by the EN regulation No. EN ISO 3834.

Appparently, the regulation EN1090 you reported is not mentioned in the flyer. Now, I don't know if it is part of the ISO 14731:2006...but, since you mentioned that it was changed recently.. I think it is NOT part of that code.

I would be glad to receive some pages of the new EN regulation. However... I don't know if it just an extract of an ISO regulation: I am looking for oversea job opportunities and market , and I don't know if a similar regulation is coming into force also beyond the European countries. Do you have any reference?

 

[kingnero]

EN1090 is not part of any other code, it's a code by itself.
ISO 14731 is a 1-page code: it only gives the three differences between basic, specific and comprehensive knowledge (IWS, IWT and IWE).
The 3834 hase several ranges of welding, of which one specific range per product must befollowed as indicated by the 1090. 3834 only gives you the several options but no means which one to choose.

If you're looking for a job outside EU, I cannot help you: regulations inside EU are already difficult enough to comprehend, let alone I'd have access to Aussie, Canadian, Japanese or USA codes...

 

[Lorindo78]

Ok, thank you for the code extract.

I was doing some researches, and I found another welding inspection scheme, CSWIP. Apparently, there is not any correlation between the diploma you can obtain attending the course of Intenrational Welding inspector (the one coded by the EWF) and the certification under the CSWIP scheme....

 

[Lorindo78]

...they are just different certifications from different institutes... Sorry for the useless reply.

 

[JRMacGregor]

Lorindo

If you get bored by your present job you will get bored more quickly and with less room to change direction if you become a welding inspector. My advice is do not do it.

If you were to become a welding inspector you would have to travel to where the work (welding) is. So if you are prepared to travel, then you can do that with your present skills. The oil and gas industry needs people all over the world - especially those prepared to travel.

In Italty you have Saipem (maybe you already work for them) who have offices all over the world and offshore vessels doing projects (drilling, crane, pipelay, production) all over the world.

On the offshore pipelay vessels owned by Saipem very high quality welding is carried out on subsea pipelines. The work is "hands on"

With your command of the English language you are mobile and can work anywhere in Europe. Like Technip in Paris, or Subsea7 in London/Paris etc.

 

[Lorindo78]

MacGregor,

I understand your point of view. Thank you for sharing it: I guess you are more experienced than me, and every "good family father" advice really helps.

I would definitely agree with you , if I knew that the situation is going to change in a few years/months. Actually, the whole picture is definitely more intricated and I am one of those "good employees" that makes the work without complaining, no matter the tasks he finds in his desk. It means, ranging from techno-commercial bid (that are supposd to be my daily routine, and many of them conducted from the beginning up to the project award and equipment delivery), but lately only questionnaires, catalogues, and other minor issues where any Engineering knowledge is barely touched, in the best scenario. This new role is the result of a management change, where one of the new bosss is not really target oriented (trying to say it in a diplomatic way..).

Basically: my role is making him doing nothing...but without the power of taking any decision (neither writing an email). This situation is going to last for a few years, and I cannot afford to stay in a "stand by" situation (in terms of knowledge growning) for such a time.
In Italy now there is an excess of Engineers, and this is making us employed also for secretariat duties. My role is getting closer and closer to a secretary (and they are about to fine one of the secretaries too...)
It is not a "conspiracy" against me: I am not playing the role of the victim inside our company, not at all. I understannd that the company global dynamics are more important than the expectations of the single worker, but, at the same time, if there is no contact point between them.. well, it's maybe time to make a decision.


I don't work for Saipem (in that case it would have been probably easier moving from branch to branch inside the company): I currently work for another company, with an office in the USA too and, even if at the beginning I was promised to be moved there for one-two years, now this chance has gone... because I am "too useful" here. Glad to be considered a crucial element, a bit less satisfied looking at my salary (1.280 Euro/month). We do work with Technip and other EPCs (Samsung, GS, SK, FW, etc). I may try to contact them before but... I started repairing motors, doing "dirty jobs" is probably what I am "made" for.

I have no family (beside my parents), neither a fiance' or a mortgage: if I want to take the step, I have to do it now. Definitely, prepared to travel (already applying for the permanent visa in Australia, although the "golden age" has gone there too), as well as exploring job opportunities in the North of Canada.

(sorry if I made it too melodramatic!)

 

[NorthCivil]

While I am extremely unfamiliar with the employment market in Italy,

€1280/ month sounds VERY low. That translates to about $1680, or around $10/hr. This is minimum wage in many places in Canada/US... You are an engineer with 30 years experience in an industrialized nation... Working in oil and gas!

In O&G in Canada, a fresh grad sitting in an office in Calgary can expect $ 60-70 k/yr. Those with 30 years experience are highly sought after and command double that or more...

Even if you had a wife and kids, I would be getting those visa applications together and networking abroad like it was going out of style! Your written English is better than most of the foreign engineers we bring in up here!

Best of Luck!

 

[Lorindo78]

Hi NorthCivil,

Sorry, probably I was not really clear: I am 34 years old, not that I have 34 years of experience...

Anyway, thank you for your encouraging words!!

I am already applying for the Canadian Working-Holiday visa: that will allow me to stay and work there for six months. A short time indeed but, trying to spend it in a proactive way, hopefully might bring some contacts to get the sponsor and visa extension/grant...that's my aim!

 

[WARose]

Example: With a 8% local unemployment rate here, we can't find gas engineers (mechinical typically, but also includes chemical, and petrolium).

I’ve been at this for 15+ years, and in my experience (good times and bad): “We can’t find anybody....” actually means we aren’t offering a competitive salary and want something for nothing. That’s the truth at the bottom of a lot of this: these companies just don’t want to compete for people. If you offer enough money: you will lure someone in (whether they are working or not).

 

[davefitz]

It would be tough to compete in the FEA field ; the experts have PhD's and the low cost providers are outsourced to low wage countries. Not much available in between the 2 extremes.

I would suggest field engineering for a gas turbine or HRSG mfr, if you have not started a family yet ( or if you actually need to get out of the house). Besides addressing the normal day to day tasks, it also remains possible to dig deeper into each problem found in the field and delve into the theoretical reason for the design , or the solution of the paricular problem .

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! "

 

[Lorindo78]

Davefitz, I guess you are 100% right when you say that competing in FEA (or CFD) field would be tough.

Field Engineering may be another options too. Probably, the most logical outcome for a do-it-yourself maniac like me.

However, even in this case I would need an employer that hires me (mechanical engineer without experience), and that's not easy... Not in my area, at least. Everybody wants experiencd people in this field (as there are A LOT of money involved), and nobody rely on people without experience. I am aware that "nobody was born with experience", but sometimes employers do not understand that...!!