380V/60HZ/3PH POWER SUPPLY 1

[chef5mate]

Hi, an electrical stub out says 380v/60hz/3ph.
Which of the machine voltage ratings below are acceptable/recommended?
3 × 200 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 220 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 230 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 400 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 420 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 460 V, 50/60 Hz
These are the only voltage available for the said machine.
Appreciate your help.

 

[che12345]

'.. an electrical stub out says 380v/60hz/3ph.Which of the machine voltage ratings below are acceptable/recommended ..3 × 400 V, 50/60 Hz 3 × 420 V, 50/60 Hz?'
I have the following opinion for your consideration.
1. In general, all machines are designed "acceptable" for + - 10% rated value on the name-plate. Note: Recommend as close to the rated for best performance.
2. 380V x 1.1 = 418V, 380V x 0.9 = 342V.
Note: 3x 400V 50/60Hz would be the best choice.
Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[edison123]

How many leads are on the motor terminals, 6 or 9?

Post a photo of the motor terminal box.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[waross]

3 × 200 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 220 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 230 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 400 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 420 V, 50/60 Hz
3 × 460 V, 50/60 Hz

??????
Sources are not generally rated for two frequencies.
If the source is a generator, set the frequency to 60 Hz and set the AVR to 380 Volts.
Don't forget to set the UFRO jumper to the 60 Hz position.
400V, 420V and 460V is just a turn of an adjustment on the AVR.
The adjustment will also turn the other way.
If the AVR is capable of 220 Volts then it is also capable of 380 Volts.
Both 220 Volts and 380 Volts use the same setting of the AVR but change the generator connections between the low voltage connection and the high voltage connection.
The AVR remains connected to a 220 Volt winding. Line to neutral of 380 Volts.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[waross]

In North America, motors are typically rated at about 4% less than the supply voltage.
If you want to follow that practice then use the 400 Volts @ 60 Hz. suggested by Mr. Che.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[cranky108]

380v I don't believe is a standard US voltage. There are several other countries that use 60Hz, but I don't know what there standard voltages are.
Anyway, motors made the world over usually standardize on there home country voltages and several others, so choose the voltage closest (within tolerance) and go with it.

I don't need to know where this is, but I can make speculations.
I know in Peru, they use three phase, but I think they use delta, with 220 phase to phase, for many homes.
Sort of hobby thing to see what other countries use, in relation to the US.

 

[che12345]

'..an electrical stub out says 380v/60hz/3ph. Which of the machine voltage ratings below are acceptable/recommended? ...3 × 400 V, 50/60 Hz...3 × 420 V, 50/60 Hz...These are the only voltage available for the said machine'.
1. My earlier proposal was based on " .. stub says 380V/60Hz/3ph and these are the only voltage available for the said machine" limitations. Question that 380V/60Hz is unusual , whether 6 or 9 terminals, adjusting the AVR to the rated voltage and frequency are practical questions, but irreverent.
2. The machine (e.g. motor) would accept + - 10% deviation in voltage per IEC, ANSI, NEMA etc.
3. The power source Voltage also varies during day or night, with variation on power demand and voltage drop etc.
4. Conclusion: Based on above 1. 2. and 3., 3x 400V 50/60Hz would be the best choice.
Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[wayne440]

More useful answers might result if the OP will state exactly what "said machine" is.

 

[jraef]

And where. It’s only a very small number of countries that use 380V at 60Hz.

That’s just for satisfying my curiosity though. Of the available choices, it would pick 400V. Most machinery is built to be able to do fine with +-10% on voltage. So if the machine is rated for 400V, and the feed is 380V, that’s only -5%, well within most tolerance bands.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

 

[waross]

It seems you want to argue with me even when I agree with you Mr. Che.
Riddle me this:
What country supplies any voltage rated at 50/60 Hz.
One part of a country may be supplied at 50 Hz and another part of the country may be supplied at 60 Hz.
Japan is an example of this.
The voltage at each part of the country will be rated at the corresponding frequency, but nowhere is there a consumer's choice of frequency.
50/60 Hz is a common generator rating but not a possible grid rating.
I am guessing that the machine is in the Philippines.
Philippines Distribution Grid; 220 V 380 V 60 Hz

And based on the fact that the Original Poster is logging in from The Philippines.
And I am sorry if my irreverence upsets you.
I will strive to be more reverent in future.

I will say that when I see a list of voltages and frequencies similar to what I only see on a generator nameplate, and someone denies it;
It's hard to be reverent "but we're tryin the best that we can".

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[waross]

Looking at that list of available supply voltage and frequency pairs I visualize a six winding generator, with each winding capable of 266 Volts or more.
The windings may be connected in wye or in delta for three phase power.
For single phase power, the windings may be connected in zig-zag, double delta or, for a ten lead machine, in a Collin's connection (bar-diamond).
The desired voltage is set by the AVR, the frequency is set by the governor and the UFRO is set by jumper.
For changes between the lower voltage range and the higher voltage range, the circuit breaker may be changed, the overload protection may use CTs, with only one set of windings fed through the CTs, or it may have a special generator circuit breaker.
A special generator breaker has nine terminals.
One set of terminals feeds through the trip mechanism.
The second set of terminal bypasses the trip mechanism and connects directly to the supply side of the contacts.
The third set of terminals is the load side of the contacts.
These are generally stud mounted breakers with the terminal studs projecting out of the rear of the beaker.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[zlatkodo]

And based on the fact that the Original Poster is logging in from The Philippines.

Incidentally, how can you tell OP is logging in from the Philippines? Enlighten the rest of us.

 

[chef5mate]

thank you everyone for sharing.

apologies waross, these voltage/frequency/ph ratings I mentioned, i.e.,
3ph × 200 V, 50/60 Hz
3ph × 220 V, 50/60 Hz
3ph × 230 V, 50/60 Hz
3ph × 400 V, 50/60 Hz
3ph × 420 V, 50/60 Hz
3ph × 460 V, 50/60 Hz
...were not sources, these are the various ratings of the machine's motor available from the manufacturer...the 380v/60hz/3ph is the only available power supply at its ultimate destination (hotel pastry area) in the Philippines.

...and the "machine " is a dough sheeter manufactured by Rondo Switzerland..

most European motors are now rated 50/60hz with varying voltages as mentioned above.

400v/50-60hz/3ph it is, then. thank you very much che12345...really appreciate it everyone.

 

[waross]

Agreed.
If you find that the voltage is a little too low, come back and we will walk you through a simple voltage boost circuit.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[stevenal]

Incidentally, how can you tell OP is logging in from the Philippines? Enlighten the rest of us.

Click on the name and look for the country code in parenthesis. Croatia for you.

 

[waross]

To be accurate, the code tells where your internet provider connects to the internet.

I have been in Honduras and been reported in Guatemala.
I have been in British Columbia and been reported in Quebec.
For a few years I was reported in Virginia regardless of where I actually was.
But it is mostly accurate.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

 

[chef5mate]

@che12345...+/-10% acceptable value for a 380V power supply should be 420V (+10%) as the closest number than 400V, would you agree?

although 400V is most common from where I am. thank you very much still for the refresher

@waross..."..the code tells where your internet provider connects to the internet..." this is new to me. where can you see this code?

again, thank you everyone who participated in this post..salute!

 

[che12345]

@ Mr chef5mate (Mechanical)(OP)22 Aug 24 06:11
' che12345...+/-10% acceptable value for a 380V power supply should be 420V (+10%) as the closest number than 400V, would you agree?'.
1. No. Your system is 380V. Say + - 10% i.e. Hi 380V x 1.1 = 418V, or Lo 380V x 0.9 = 342V. How do you get 420V (+10%)?
2. The best choice machine Motor is 400V. Say + - 10% i.e. Hi 400V x 1.1 = 440V, or Lo 400V x 0.9 = 360V.
3. From above 1. and 2., it is clear that 400V motor is the best choice for your system of 380V. The next 420V is NOT as close.
Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[jraef]

this is new to me. where can you see this code?

You can’t, you have to be on the Round Table to have that feature. We use it in thwarting spammers and other “undesirables”.


" We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for I don't know." -- W. H. Auden

 

[waross]

Click on your own name. The last thing I see in your profile is :

I have saved 1 threads to My Thread Archive and 0 FAQs to My FAQ Archive so I can refer back to them easily. (PH)

Please report back.
The access criteria has changed a couple of times over the years Jeff.
I have never checked after the last change if the feature was open or restricted.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!