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$50/hour engineer vs. $5/hour engineer 24
- Thread starter QCE
- Start date
CanEngJohn
Automotive
You know as we argue about motgages and how much milk is in the corner store I think that the persepective we HAVE to take is - Is a corporation going to see the value in paying $50 an hour (which would be a really nice raise for me especially if that was American $) when they can use an Engineer employed in a sister company which costs them $5 an hour on the payroll?
I work for a global company making inroads into India and China. How do I as an individual remain competetive in this market?
This isn't even outsourcing because we both work for the same company.
I work for a global company making inroads into India and China. How do I as an individual remain competetive in this market?
This isn't even outsourcing because we both work for the same company.
A $50 engineer is better, on the whole than a $5 engineer. Lots of reasons why. Economics of professional skills are diferent than economics of common labor.
The point is - what are you buying? If it is say a nuclear submarine that will carry 60 men several hundred feet below the sea for six months while carrying a substantial amount of nuclear war heads, you probably want the $50 engineer. If on the other hand you just want to get a cheap strucure, mill, or whatever, so you can run it for a short time, show positve cash flow and sell it, you will probably get the $5 engineer. By the time problems crop up, they will be someone elses.
It amazes me how pervasive this attitude has become today in bussines.
The point is - what are you buying? If it is say a nuclear submarine that will carry 60 men several hundred feet below the sea for six months while carrying a substantial amount of nuclear war heads, you probably want the $50 engineer. If on the other hand you just want to get a cheap strucure, mill, or whatever, so you can run it for a short time, show positve cash flow and sell it, you will probably get the $5 engineer. By the time problems crop up, they will be someone elses.
It amazes me how pervasive this attitude has become today in bussines.
DRC1, it really shows that you have not had the opportunity to meet and talk to a $5 engineer... It is unfortunate, but you really are missing on a great deal of ideas and knowledge that you could acquire from a $5 engineer on, for example, nuclear engineering.
Coka
Coka
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1
- #24
VoyageofDiscovery
Structural
North America does not have the monopoly on good engineers. As a North American engineer, I have noticed that most engineers from underdeveloped countries are more educated than their NA counterparts.
With regards to experience, an experienced engineer at the helm counters that argument. Outsourcing is the only way a company can deliver an item or service for less because finally that is the only advantage when margins are so low.
As many of you,I have seen and felt the devaluation of engineering, from my perspective obviously, which makes me think it's going to be a far harder road ahead.
VOD
With regards to experience, an experienced engineer at the helm counters that argument. Outsourcing is the only way a company can deliver an item or service for less because finally that is the only advantage when margins are so low.
As many of you,I have seen and felt the devaluation of engineering, from my perspective obviously, which makes me think it's going to be a far harder road ahead.
VOD
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1
- #25
Well, I am a less than $5 engineer.
The only difference between the $50 engineer and $5 engineer is location, and the 100 years more of industry history behind the $50 engineer.
I think the $50 engineers are better generally, because of that history, but maybe the difference is not as big as in salary. But you can live a good life in China as a $5 engineer. So, it is about location.
Many many $5 engineer are well educated. But that is not because they want to, that is because they have to. Someone said in a post that as a engineer, he earns only $10000 more than a bus driver in US. But in China, even in Shanghai, a big city, an engineer earns 2 or 3 times more than a bus driver. Life will be very hard if you are an assembly worker in Shanghai, so you have to get a high degree to become an engineer. I am now on a trip in Germany. I found that being a worker here can also live a good, maybe not rich life here. So, that is the difference.
Still, I think $50 engineers are better, but maybe $25 is the proper price. Just a joke!
Wang Chong
Mechanical Designing
HOMAG AG
The only difference between the $50 engineer and $5 engineer is location, and the 100 years more of industry history behind the $50 engineer.
I think the $50 engineers are better generally, because of that history, but maybe the difference is not as big as in salary. But you can live a good life in China as a $5 engineer. So, it is about location.
Many many $5 engineer are well educated. But that is not because they want to, that is because they have to. Someone said in a post that as a engineer, he earns only $10000 more than a bus driver in US. But in China, even in Shanghai, a big city, an engineer earns 2 or 3 times more than a bus driver. Life will be very hard if you are an assembly worker in Shanghai, so you have to get a high degree to become an engineer. I am now on a trip in Germany. I found that being a worker here can also live a good, maybe not rich life here. So, that is the difference.
Still, I think $50 engineers are better, but maybe $25 is the proper price. Just a joke!
Wang Chong
Mechanical Designing
HOMAG AG
If you are responsible for signing off tooling worth $200,000 then it doesn’t make any significant difference to the overall cost of the project whether or not you use a $5/hr or a $50/hr engineer. Most people like to meet in person the engineer who they are relying on to design their product. If you are buying services from an over seas consultant then the $5/hr engineer becomes $25/hr.
History
Economy of the country/region
Cost of living
Population of country and as a result, available oppurtunities i.e. supply and demand for engineers
Competition
Number of institutes offering engineering
Cost of education
All the above are some of the differences in the regions leading to the difference in wages for the same job.
Thanks and regards
Sayee Prasad R CEng MWeldI MIOMMM
If it moves, train it...if it doesn't move, calibrate it...if it isn't written down, it never happened!
Economy of the country/region
Cost of living
Population of country and as a result, available oppurtunities i.e. supply and demand for engineers
Competition
Number of institutes offering engineering
Cost of education
All the above are some of the differences in the regions leading to the difference in wages for the same job.
Thanks and regards
Sayee Prasad R CEng MWeldI MIOMMM
If it moves, train it...if it doesn't move, calibrate it...if it isn't written down, it never happened!
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1
- #28
$5/Hr? Wow... I am just 300 km away from Banglore and I am making $3/hr. Let us start from US and start calculating the salaries with distances on a log scale upto one half of the hemisphere(vertical, I mean) and then go back and to the second hemisphere. Voila!
I am very thankful if anybody can tell me an equation that tells how much salary one should get. There is another engineer in my company getting around $6/hr but he hardly knows any engineering.
Somebody above said that $5 an hour engineer in India just doesn’t have the required skill set and I pity his ignorance. I was offered a job, sometime back, by a pharma MNC (in one of the developed countries) with same salary that they are paying to their nationals. That doesn't mean that they are short of engineers or we have better pharmaceutical experience.
I don't think there is a point comparing $5 and $50 thing. I am very much interested to have a salary of $50/hr in Inida but there is nobody to give it. If somebody starts it then that doesn't mean I am equal to a well experienced and knowledgeable US engineer.
I never believe in 100 years industry history, for we are taught history in schools and in that case I should also get $50/hr now. History is not subjected to one particular location and anybody can learn anything from anywhere.
I am very thankful if anybody can tell me an equation that tells how much salary one should get. There is another engineer in my company getting around $6/hr but he hardly knows any engineering.
Somebody above said that $5 an hour engineer in India just doesn’t have the required skill set and I pity his ignorance. I was offered a job, sometime back, by a pharma MNC (in one of the developed countries) with same salary that they are paying to their nationals. That doesn't mean that they are short of engineers or we have better pharmaceutical experience.
I don't think there is a point comparing $5 and $50 thing. I am very much interested to have a salary of $50/hr in Inida but there is nobody to give it. If somebody starts it then that doesn't mean I am equal to a well experienced and knowledgeable US engineer.
I never believe in 100 years industry history, for we are taught history in schools and in that case I should also get $50/hr now. History is not subjected to one particular location and anybody can learn anything from anywhere.
- Thread starter
- #29
quark I think you missed the point.
If you had a company in the US and needed someone to do a calculation for you. Would you rather pay $50/hour for an american engineer or $5/hour for an engineer in India? With the internet it can be done in the same time. This is a contract rate not a persons wage. Note $50/hour is not likely, it is probably more like $125/hour but you get the point.
If you had a company in the US and needed someone to do a calculation for you. Would you rather pay $50/hour for an american engineer or $5/hour for an engineer in India? With the internet it can be done in the same time. This is a contract rate not a persons wage. Note $50/hour is not likely, it is probably more like $125/hour but you get the point.
Basically, it is location of the work and the "going rate" in that location. Why $50/hr vs $5/hr for an engineer? Why $1/kg vs $0.01/kg for carrots? Why pay $40k for a new car (that loses its value by a third within the hour of driving it off the lot) vs. $3k for an old beat up clunker? Why a Rolex rather than a Hong Kong knock-off?
One point that has been missed is the responsibility of the designs. In US and Canada the engineer must "supervise" the work being done under him and sign the drawing - pretty hard if the drawings are originating from scratch in India or China. The US design engineer reviews the drawings, makes a few changes, sends it back, gets it back and signs it. Was the drawing prepared under his direction? Good article in Ontario's P.Eng. magazine "Engineering Dimensions" a few months back about this issue of outsourcing.
By the way, I work in India (previously in China) and there are a lot of fine and bright engineers over here. Sadly, the system, in our field, doesn't really allow them much in the way of the ingenuity factor that you can utilize other places although it is getting tougher in the developed North America.
![[cheers]](/data/assets/smilies/cheers.gif "[cheers] [cheers]")
One point that has been missed is the responsibility of the designs. In US and Canada the engineer must "supervise" the work being done under him and sign the drawing - pretty hard if the drawings are originating from scratch in India or China. The US design engineer reviews the drawings, makes a few changes, sends it back, gets it back and signs it. Was the drawing prepared under his direction? Good article in Ontario's P.Eng. magazine "Engineering Dimensions" a few months back about this issue of outsourcing.
By the way, I work in India (previously in China) and there are a lot of fine and bright engineers over here. Sadly, the system, in our field, doesn't really allow them much in the way of the ingenuity factor that you can utilize other places although it is getting tougher in the developed North America.
Bloody hell see thread on "How's dem career prospects?"
If an engineer is working for $5/hr they need to be shot. A recently arrived engineer from india told me that engineers are millionaires in india, just that they choose to live like they do, tired old arguments about a totally different value system is almost irrelevant. What does the $50/hr engineer do to control the $5/.hr engineer, that is the question.
Answer: bloody little so don't blame the $5/hr engineer.
sc
If an engineer is working for $5/hr they need to be shot. A recently arrived engineer from india told me that engineers are millionaires in india, just that they choose to live like they do, tired old arguments about a totally different value system is almost irrelevant. What does the $50/hr engineer do to control the $5/.hr engineer, that is the question.
Answer: bloody little so don't blame the $5/hr engineer.
sc
FalsePrecision
Structural
I don't buy the $5 vs. $50 deal. Correct me if I am wrong - engineers in India are paid about 1/4 - 1/5 going rate in USA. However, cost of living is less...cars cost less.
- Thread starter
- #33
Did you guys read the post are you just slow.
We are not talking about wages. Get in the game.
We are talking about why would someone pay more for engineering services in say USA when they can get the same services for cheaper in say India.
We are talking about outsourcing. It is the issue. But thanks for your rants.
We are not talking about wages. Get in the game.
We are talking about why would someone pay more for engineering services in say USA when they can get the same services for cheaper in say India.
We are talking about outsourcing. It is the issue. But thanks for your rants.
FalsePrecision
Structural
QCE, we are not slow. If you want a relevant answer to your query, then pose a more definitive question.
FalsePrecision
Structural
QCE, this issue was already covered in another thread. The reason countries such as USA outsource is because some non-engineer manager figures it will make more profits. But that is debatable, after all is said and done. Rather, it is probably more a function of how well the operation is run.
The reason companies in the USA hire foreigner engineers to work in the USA is to keep overall salaries down. When I was graduating from college in 1974, it was the Iranians. Now, there is a government proviso that the foreign applicant to a job must have a special skill set, and he is not displacing an American engineer should he get the job. That sounds good in theory, but is a farce in real life.
The reason the US Government condones all of the above is because they receive major contributions from corporations that profit from outsourcing.
As for the post above that underdeveloped countries generally graduate engineers with more education than their North American counterparts, that is nonsense.
The reason companies in the USA hire foreigner engineers to work in the USA is to keep overall salaries down. When I was graduating from college in 1974, it was the Iranians. Now, there is a government proviso that the foreign applicant to a job must have a special skill set, and he is not displacing an American engineer should he get the job. That sounds good in theory, but is a farce in real life.
The reason the US Government condones all of the above is because they receive major contributions from corporations that profit from outsourcing.
As for the post above that underdeveloped countries generally graduate engineers with more education than their North American counterparts, that is nonsense.
Slugger926
Bioengineer
"The reason companies in the USA hire foreigner engineers to work in the USA is to keep overall salaries down. When I was graduating from college in 1974, it was the Iranians. Now, there is a government proviso that the foreign applicant to a job must have a special skill set, and he is not displacing an American engineer should he get the job. That sounds good in theory, but is a farce in real life."
Especially when the American Engineers are laid off and the foriegn engineers are retained.
Especially when the American Engineers are laid off and the foriegn engineers are retained.
GregLocock
Automotive
Oh, are you suggesting that the company should discriminate against the lower paid worker with the same skill set when it comes to retrenchments?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
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Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
FalsePrecision
Structural
If there needs to be a layoff- the foreigners should be the first to go. They are the ones who came to the USA to steal our jobs in the first place.
Cheers.
Cheers.
GregLocock
Automotive
'your' jobs eh? I must have forgotten the bit where it is written that every USAn is entitled to a job. I'm pretty sure it isn't written in the Bible, Koran or the American Constitution. I haven't checked the NRA handbook, though that sounds like a possibility.
Well, with attitudes like that I'm not surprised that outsourcing and offshoring are popular.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
Well, with attitudes like that I'm not surprised that outsourcing and offshoring are popular.
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
FalsePrecision
Structural
Offshoring works for jobs like customer service, but not for engineering.
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