A question that everyone can answer!! 1

[LTOP]

Hello All!

I just want to hear input form other engineers about job searching strategies and amount of time spent looking.

I started by focusing on the automotive industries and mining/oil industries because that is where my internship experience has been but recently have been "spamming" resumes because I am beginning to feel a bit desperate.

1) I have been looking for about 6 months. It that a long time? It feels like I have been looking forever.
2) What can I do/learn to stay ahead or competitive in the job market?

Any advice would be great!

Thanks,

-LTOP

 

[TFL]

what is a foreign name? Assuming you are in the states. Don't we all have foreign names. I am fourth generation but my name is still hungarian.

i would be more likely to be suspect of a CV with no american education or possible some foreign education. that is probably a better indicator of what you are saying

 

[astructurale]

If by foreign you mean a name other than American, yes, this discrimination does happen but I do not know how prevelant it is. I have heard of managers that skim through resumes and weed out all of the really foreign looking/sounding names before they have even met the person, which is wrong. However, if the name is borderline the person may get an interview. The persons ability to speak fluent English also makes a difference.

Like I said, I do not agree with this practice at all, and I believe that it is even illegal in the US. However, from experience in school and in the work place it is much more diffult to learn from / work with someone with a heavy foreign accent, especially since most Americans only speak English and are not accostumed to the different accents.

Of course as a southerner I hear it's hard for some northerners to understand us! How shocking!

 

[whyun]

Especially during times like this, this issue may be very sensitive. Yes, I agree with you that most names are foreign in the United States.

At this time in history, it appears that most European names are accepted in the U.S. The foreign names I was referring to are names from continents that are lesser known to the "majority" such as people from the islamic nations, far east, Africa, and so on.

An applicant can very well be a third generation from, say Pakistan, speaks only English, educated in America, but only retained a Pakistani name. In a resume, the first thing you see is the NAME, before any credentials, education and so on. Do people develop preconceived notions about the applicant due to the name?

Another example is Asian names. Say you see a name called David Chang. Obviously the first name is "western". Then you see someone with a full Asian name (for example Kim Jong Il). Do people feel more affinity towards the one with a western name?

As much as we would like to admit we are not racists, all of us ARE to some degree. Familiar names are easier to remember. I was just wondering what people feel about names that are less familiar to his/her own.

 

[vooter]

Somehow leak your name to a headhunter. They will do all the work at no cost to you. They only make money if you are hired (company will pay them). Ask for a lot of money. See what happens. Other than that, go for experience and get your PE then them magic doors start to open...

 

[astructurale]

wyhun, you bring up a good distinction. When I think foreign names I typically think of something other than a spanish or english name since those names are very common in the US. Even my last name is of foreign orgion; it's german, but it's a shorter more common name in the US, and my first name is very American.

More middle eastern names tend to be the ones that I would consider as foreign names since their populations in the US are much less, although they are growing. From what I've seen if someone has a American based first name and a foreign last name there is not as much discrimination or distinction. I think most would assume that the person is second, third, etc generation and would therefore have exceptional spoken English. I know it must be tough for people with foreign first and last names to live in the US in general, not just related to finding employment. I'm sure though as America continues to become more and more multi-cultural it will become less of an issue. It's probably less of an issue in areas of the US where a larger number of middle eastern persons live.

I'd be interested to see any posts from persons from the middle east, or any other non-US country, too, who are living and working in the US to learn if they really think that their names have made finding a job more difficult for them.

That's just been my experience so far, and I've spent most of my years in the South to Middle Eastern US states.

 

[franzh]

How far up the job process are you? Have you made it to the interview process? Are you getting in the door? You should analyze where you resume gets stopped and see what it takes to go from there. I made a post some time ago about interviewing candidates, their appearance, etc, and I still stand by it.

No one knows you better than you, but that is a double edged sword. Just because you know yourself well does not mean everyone else does too. Taking some items in your resume for granted, (even for a professional writer, they only write what information you provide) you should take a long hard look at what information you are trying to convey to a prospective employer. You have to be appealing.

Several times in the past I sent a resume to the company president outlining what I can provide the company and was offered a position, even though one was not posted.

Franz

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[whyun]

astructurale,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. As this is a very touchy subject, I can see that not many are participating in the discussion. Living and working in California is quite an experience. So many diversity in culture and language. Engineering field, especially, I find people of different ancestry both as employers and employees. Not as many "gringos" compared to several decades ago. Number of civil graduates are declining as a whole in the US, many foreign engineers filling the gap...

Apologies to LTOP for my digression.

 

[epoisses]

First find out for yourself where you'd want to work and WHY. This process can take quite a while. Then determine what particular interest this company may have in hiring you. This may take even longer and is a pain in the back but absolutely necessary. Then get your resume and letter in order. This should take a while too (6 months for these 3 steps together is not unusual) and requires assistance from at least one other person. Then go for it directly. Never spam resumes elsewhere than where your real interest is.

The best way by far to get "in" is by using people "inside" who know you, but it still won't work if you haven't found any "unique selling point". I'm working for my second (possibly last) company and used this strategy twice.

Good luck!

 

[franzh]

About 20 years ago, I was staffing (about 15 positions) a newly created department in a municipal government. The positions ranged from minimal duty/minimal responsibility up to assistant to me, the manager. According to the requirements, we had to post the positions outside the department. I had one person's resume that kept coming to my attention, but for EACH position! The key item was his experience. "3 years operating a speciality sunglasses and novelty store", in those exact words. All the applicant did was change the job code on each one, hoping that any of the positions would call him in.

Another applicant was well placed on the resume score sheet (your potential employer has one) where each item is listed according to a score. When I called him in for an interview, his answering machine said "Hey dude! I'm out getting drunk, getting l*** and partying hard this weekend, dont leave me a message until Monday!"

I left this message:
"This is ***** ***** with the City of *****. I had considered calling you in for an interview, but after hearing your message, I dont think you will be the right person for my assistant manager position." I never heard back.

Dont spam resumes with exactly the same wording, they may go to the same interviewer who picks up the similarities.
Franz

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[svanels]

Franzh your comments of the first applicant reminds me of a discusion we had sometime ago: "who is on the other side when you are chatting?" (no cameras). Some people assumed that it could be a computer (giving standard answers).Another opinion was it could be a monkey (or even a pig) if you feed him enough bananas rewarding his typing.

 

[AndrewTX]

I tried the internet job search method once about 5 years ago. I had my resume posted on 10 of the bigger job search web sites as well as on two headhunter sites.

I spent about 6 months going through the job postings on all of these sites and submitting my resume in addtion to using the automatic job seeker functions of the web sites.

The end result of 6 months of effort was one job interview.

Luckily I was still employed with my old company so I could afford the lack of success. I have my job with my new company using the old fashined method of networking. A former colleague was working here and he presented my resume to the department manager and I had a job interview lined up in one day and a job offer a few hours after that interview.

Interesting thing is that my current employer was also listing the position for which I was hired on the internet job search engines. I had applied over the internet and forwarded my resume and it went nowhere, but having a coworker present my resume to that same company resulted in a job offer in less than a week.

If I decide to move on in the future I'll still use the internet to look for openings and generally gage the market in the area I wish to work, but I no longer look to the internet job seach web sites to provide any real success.

 

[Guest0527211403]

astructurale touched upon getting involved with trade organizations (like SME or ASME, since you're a Mech). These are great ways of finding job contacts. I have used the contacts I have established through SME on numerous occasions while I was working, and I have very recently embarked on a new job search myself, and I am definitely going to mine the contacts I have made there.

One word of caution though... While there is nothing wrong with saying that you are looking for work at the meetings, there are wrong ways to approach it. One guy started coming to meetings with a small CV printed on a sheet 1/4 the size of an 8.5x11 sheet. Actually when I first got one, I thought it was a good idea. And it isn't a bad one. But over the course of 2 months, I recieved 4 of these slips. He would hand them out at meetings, plant tours, BBQs. What's worse, I was still in college at the time! He would just blindly hand these to whoever didn't turn it down, like someone handing out flyers at a shopping mall. And at meetings he would usually find an excuse to leave after we read the minutes of the previous meetings. Why he never found a job through SME, and why he stopped attending meetings speaks for itself.