A106 Gr.B & A 333 Gr.6 Seamless vs A53 Gr.B Welded

[MENEF]

Discharge of Main Air Compressors in 20'' and 24'' pipe to supply a Air Seperation Unit (ASU). Before the water wash towers and desorbers (alumina and molecular sieve).

Design Pressure 20 Bars, Operating Temperature 25 C, pipe is running on outside pipe rack (-30 C to 30 C).

Pipe Specs (Warm process & Utility Piping):
20'': A106 Gr B, Schedule 40
24'': A333 Gr 6, Schedule 40
Note: For diameter larger than 30'' and Design Pressure at 10 bars, specs call for API 5L Gr B Welded.

I'm new in this industry but considering the pressure, temperature and application, I don't see why not using A53 Gr B Welded. The substitution could have a major impact on the economics of the project.

Eric Fontaine, Project Engineer, Air Liquide Canada

 

[MENEF]

Before my question, I had in mind I was under ASME B31.3 Category D Fluid Service. After reviewing, I realised I'm not since I'm above 150psi.

Therefore, there is no need for answer.

This site seems to be great. Sorry to bother with such a basic question.

Regards,

Eric Fontaine

 

[BenThayer]

not sure if you are still monitoring this thread but i would be real interested in the use of A333.

i have only seen this used on low temperature service, e.g., below -20°F.

 

[jte]

Well, I'm a California guy, but I've heard rumors of it occasionally getting kinda cold in Canada. A quick weather forecast check shows -8°F (a bit warmer than average) in Fort McMurray on Monday. Seems that MDMT issues and thus A333 might be more of a concern up there... 'Course autorefrigeration might help cool things off also.

jt

 

[Cockroach]

BenThayer, ASTM A333 Grade 6 pipe is typically used in cold weather applications. You are indeed correct, below -15C in the oil & gas field.

I have used it extensively in orifice meter runs where notch toughness is a requirement. In this regard, the rating was to -45C.

The equivalent without notch toughness was ASTM A106 Grade B pipeline, this was used above the -15C limit.

I haven't specified A333 in a number of years, I know it is getting more difficult to source in Western Canada (i.e. Alberta)

Kenneth J Hueston, PEng
Principal
Sturni-Hueston Engineering Inc
Edmonton, Alberta Canada

 

[BenThayer]

at a previous employer that used A333 extensively for -28°F ammonia service, change control was not good for quite some time and we ended up with A53 being used in various repairs.

i personally prefer 304 SS if it is a small job since it is more obvious what it is and less likely to be replaced with an inferior material on a Saturday night 3rd shift.

especially in ammonia service where you have to worry about SCC, etc.

thanks for the update, btw.

 

[jte]

Ben-

Good poin't 'bout swing and graveyard shift maintenance work... A similar problem to yours arose when a carbon steel piping component was replaced. Only later (after the cracks) was it realized that it had been replaced with a Cr-Mo component but without Cr-Mo welding procedures / PWHT... Never thought I'd find myself recommending that we PMI CS components to ensure a lack of alloying elements.

jt

 

[11echo]

I worked in Alaska on the pipeline up there, we used A333-6 pipe in just about every "outside" location with A350-LF2 fittings. We did this when the location could see temp.s below -20. And we used A106-B & A53-B piping in just about all "inside" locations, with A234-WPB fittings, where temps. would not see anything below -20.

 

[metengr]

I'm new in this industry but considering the pressure, temperature and application, I don't see why not using A53 Gr B Welded.

ASTM A 53 is not really suitable for service temperatures below ambient (especially -30 deg C) because of toughness concerns. ASME B&PV Code limits A/SA 53 to a minimum design metal temperature of -20 deg F. This pipe specification is for general service applications.

 

[Cockroach]

Good answers guys! Yeah, ASTM A350 LF2 Class 1 flanging with ASTM A333 Grade 6 pipe. Typically this is the classical combination for cold weather service.

But ammonia service, a touch out of my comfort realm. You do have good answers here that will point in the right direction.

Kenneth J Hueston, PEng
Principal
Sturni-Hueston Engineering Inc
Edmonton, Alberta Canada

 

[Malubit]

Low temp materials are commonly specified in Northern climates for most "gas" lines that will see ambient temperature.(MDMT's <-29C)
Most process lines are specifed at +>-29C will be SA or A106 grade B