Above ground single wall pipes on isolated sites

[5689]

hi all!

There is a new Canadian legislation since 12 june 2008 from Environment Canada called " storage tank for petroleum products and allied petroleum productts regulations".

The paragraph 23 talk about above ground pipes without secondairy containment and it offers 4 things when you got this situation :
1-continuous leak detection
2-corrosion analysis program conducted by an expert on corrosin
3-once a month inspect visualy these piping
4- once a year perform a piping precision leak detection test

Most of our sites are isolated and access is only by helicopter or ship ($$$) so all of the above are difficult to implement for us because of $$$ or access or technical dificulties such as distant monitoring and qualified personnel on hands for these task.

My idea is to replace the non secondairy containment pipes with double wall pipes like these :

http://www.permapipe.com/web/products.aspx?ProductID=244

or

http://www.permapipe.com/web/products.aspx?ProductID=245

and then the paragraph 23 is no more a concern for us.

Is this a good solution? Is there any other secondairy containment for above ground pipe than double wall? Any advice or suggestion are welcomed! Sorry for my english skills, I try my best!

 

[zdas04]

Your English is far better than my French, you have nothing to apologise for.

In the similar rules in the U.S., double wall pipes would satisfy the requirement, as long as you have a way to evaluate the annulus periodically. That last part is important, because it could be done with a pressure transmitter and remote telemetry (then it would satisfy number 1).

Do you really have remote platforms that nobody visits for more than a month at a time? That is suprising to me, since I've never seen an offshore operation that didn't have some maintenance or oversite at least once a month. If anyone goes to the platform, you can institue a proceedure that they have to do a walk around and initial a log before they start their work. Some of my clients require something similar just to make sure that the visitor is aware of normal hazards and it works fine.

David

 

[BigInch]

I believe that, besides being very expensive and difficult to construct, double wall pipe hides corrosion issues that might develop on the primary containment piping and hinders their detection. That problem is very common with casings at road crossings for overland pipeline transmission lines to the point where any experienced pipeline company will not install casings, preferring a simple heavier walled pipe in lieu of installing problems waiting to happen.

Will drip pans count as "secondary containment"?

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
***************

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[5689]

Fixed drips pan can count as secondary containment but as it will be outside we need a oil to water separator with small tank to collect the water that can enter the drips pan.

Yeah Corrosion $%?/!!! I have found double wall pipe made with Stainless stell pipe, is this probable solution to rust problems?

Our remote sites are on land mostly on island fra from shore in the a range of 600 km to 1800 km from our main base with no near air base, airport or docks. Diesel engine run 24/7 for power supply of distant radar and communications systems. We send people every 4 months to inspect the site and do repairs or maintenance. Minimum time access by helicopter is 3 days (1 day to go, 1 day working there, 1 day back)(average of 20 hours of flight) if weather is good...cost for the flight only could be a total around (at 1K$/hour of flight) 20K$. Once a mouth we got 240 000$ the be compliant with the law for one site and we've got many of them....

 

[5689]

sorry for the error above in tha last paragraph

once a month inspection cost us 240K$ a year to be compliant for one site only...

 

[BigInch]

I've run all pipe for a gas to liquids plant inside a 6 ft diameter above ground corregated metal pipe tunnel? Protection from the elements with secondary containment too.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
***************

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Daianto]

Hi,

This is Caluna-I could not sign in with my own account for some reason. We are aware of these regs but not being Federal (we are territorial) our AHJ is not obliged to adopt them.

It is not really clear to me from the Regs Section 23 if A B AND C must be met or is it A and B or C...

23. (1) The owner or operator of a storage tank system installed before the coming into force of these Regulations that has aboveground piping without secondary containment must visually inspect the walls of that piping within two years after the day on which these Regulations come into force to determine if the piping is leaking and after that inspection they must

(a) immediately

(i) use continuous external aboveground pipe leak monitoring for that piping, or

(ii) implement a corrosion analysis program for that piping, developed and conducted by a corrosion expert, that includes at least an annual inspection;

(b) once each month, visually inspect that piping; or

(c) annually perform a piping precision leak detection test of that piping in accordance with section 24.

 

[5689]

when reading the regulation in english it is clear to me you to met A (I or II) and (B or C).
but when reading french version it says A or B or C and that is what I'v been told by EC regulators in my region.
new regulations are always a bit messy to undertsand including the regulator that made them...
Maybe you can ask you EC regional adviser on that question to see if we got same answers.

biginch idea is quite interesting and I'll submit it to our installation staff if is it feasable for them and ok with other civil regualtions

this forum rocks, I can assure you, I,m very glad to be able to discuss with people understanding what I'm talking about...

 

[BigInch]

Its not entirely a blank cheque; you may have to comply with some closed work space regulations, have emergency air supplies available, provide explosive atmosphere monitors or ensure adequate ventilation, etc.

"Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
***************

http://virtualpipeline.spaces.live.com/

 

[Daianto]

Bonjour5689 what finally transpired here? I had asked our people same questions and we were all puzzled.

daianto