AC4 duty contactors for winch duty in marine environment 4

[edison123]

These AC4 contactors are for winches working in off-shore oil rigs with saline air.

Is there a special spec for marine environment contactors? Or do they come under standard specs?

Who are the reputed manufacturers of such winch duty AC4 contactors?

Thanks for your tips.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[edison123]

Mr Che, thanks, I have already asked ABB India. Awaiting their response.

Thanks again, Scotty.

I miss the old days when I could give out lps like candies.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[LionelHutz]

I got a AF370 contactor. Haven't seen those A contactors for quite some time around here.

 

[ScottyUK]

No problem Muthu. The thought counts more than the LPS.

Lionel - the A-series has largely been replaced by the AF-series, other than a couple of frame sizes. The two are not fully interchangeable, having different pole pitches so you have to buy a new O/L relay to go with the contactor.

 

[che12345]

Dear Messrs edison123, LionelHutz and ScottyUK

A1. Reference ABB publication Contactors Motor Protection Accessories 1SBC100122C0202
A2. The A-series and AF-series are [currently co-existing]. The main differences besides the physical size are:
A2.1 on control circuit:
a) A145...A300 contactors are a.c. operated with [laminated magnet] circuit.
b) AF 145...AF300 contactors are with [electronic coil] (a.c./d.c.operated) with wide voltage range.
c) AF145...AF1650 besides the electronic coil, are fully suitable for operation in a.c. or d.c. control circuit liable to voltage interruption or voltage dip risks.
A3. Advantages of electronic coil: wide voltage range, reduced power consumption, noise free, can withstand voltage interruption or voltage dips in the control supply (<- 20ms) and are suitable for low voltage inputs for control, e.g. by a PLC ... etc.
A4. Electromagnetic compatibility
AF...series contactors with electronic coil are designed for "environment A" per IEC 60947-1, 60947-4-1.
A5. AF95...AF750 approval: BV (only AF400...AF750), GL, LRS, DNV (only AF400...AF750), RINa (only AF400...AF750).

Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[edison123]

Che - These electronic coil operated AF contactors are basically with DC operating coils with rectifier circuit for AC inputs? How much of a cost driver are these coils over standard ac coils?

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[itsmoked]

Oh, ooh, see Muthu, I was correct about bigger contactors being higher ACx for lower loads.

As for cost difference for DC it doesn't matter, pay for it! They're superior because they can control the coil current better and that results in less heat generated in the contactor. Also, a little grunge in a contactor won't burn up the contactor if it has a DC coil involved whereas it can quickly toast a contactor with an AC coil. Having a weee bit of hysteresis in the contactor because of the AC/DC aspect can also prevent chatter which will quickly obliterate the contacts in a large contactor. Oh, and DC coils can hold in better in a bumpy environment like on a ship.


che12345; You're a wealth of information on these. Thanks for sharing it.


Keith Cress
kcress -

http://www.flaminsystems.com

 

[che12345]

Dear Mr edison123

Q1. Che - These electronic coil operated AF contactors are basically with DC operating coils with rectifier circuit for AC inputs?
A1. Reference ABB publication Contactors Motor Protection Accessories 1SBC100122C0202 page 2/18.
A1.1. AF...series contactors are fitted with an electronic interface that very precisely controls the voltage to the coil. The electronic controlled circuit always works using d,c, current through the coil. With a.c. operation, the current is rectified before being applied to the coil, the voltage is pulsed across the coil with the aid of a transistor. The pulsing also implies that the current in the coil can be optimally regulated all the time relatively independent of the voltage level.
A1.2. FYI: coil voltage code:
a) same code for (48V...130V 50/60Hz) and (48V...130V d.c.)
b) same code for (100V...250V 50/60Hz) and (100V...250V d.c.)
c) contactor closes at 0.85 Uc min., and opens at 0.55 Uc min.
Q2. How much of a "cost driver" are these coils over standard ac coils?
A2. a) Sorry, I don't understand your question. You do not have to pay "extra" for the electronic coil. It comes with the AF-series contactors.
b) I am not sure of the [price difference] between the A-series (with standard ac coil) and the AF-series (with electronic coil) contactors in India.

Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[che12345]

Dear Mr itsmoked
Mr Mr edison123

Info 1. Oh, ooh, see Muthu, I was correct about bigger contactors being higher ACx for lower loads. bigsmile.
A1. Agreed, most AC3 contactors can be de-rated to AC4, by [lowering the current rating] by say about half (approx) in order to [maintain the same durability] (number of operating cycles).

Info 2. As for cost difference for DC it doesn't matter, pay for it! They're superior because they can control the coil current better and that results in less heat generated in the contactor. Also, a little grunge in a contactor won't burn up the contactor if it has a DC coil involved whereas it can quickly toast a contactor with an AC coil. Having a weee bit of hysteresis in the contactor because of the AC/DC aspect can also prevent chatter which will quickly obliterate the contacts in a large contactor. Oh, and DC coils can hold in better in a bumpy environment like on a ship.
A2. a)In general, modern contactors (e.g. A-series) with (standard ac coil) [do not] encountered any problems for marine applications. This is evident that these contactors are certified by major marine classification societies.
b) if you have a {strong} dc control supply at 110Vdc or higher, fine; but avoid using 12Vdc or 24Vdc operation from a step-down control transformer and a rectifier! Unless directly from the close-by battery.
c) avoid designing the [dc control source] yourself by using a "small" local step-down control transformer and a rectifier including smoothing capacitors. The ac coil pulling-in surge is [very heavy] that causes huge voltage dip and the small control MCBs to trip, if it is not properly selected with the correct current rating and [tripping type] (characteristic).
d) use AF-series would circumvent the problems, if any at all.

Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[che12345]

Dear Mr itsmoked
Mr Mr edison123

Corrigendum
....The ac coil pulling-in surge is [very heavy] that causes...
Should be ... The dc coil pulling-in surge is [very heavy] that causes...

Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[edison123]

Keith - What can I say? I am an ignorant newbie when it comes to contactors.

Mr Che - The available control voltage is 110 V AC which is obtained via a dedicated 480/110 trafo fitted inside the contactor cubicle. Will AF300 contactor work directly with 110 V, 60 Hz?

PS: Do we have to be so formal?

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[che12345]

Hellow edison123

Q1. Mr Che - The available control voltage is 110 V AC which is obtained via a dedicated 480/110 trafo fitted inside the contactor cubicle. Will AF300 contactor work directly with 110 V, 60 Hz?
A1. Reference ABB publication Contactors Motor Protection Accessories 1SBC100122C0202 page 2/21 and 2/69.
A1.1 For AF300 contactor
a) control voltage range 48...250V 60Hz.
Attention: when ordering state your control voltage is 110V 60Hz.
It should be Type AF300-30-11 110 (with 1 NO + 1 NC aux. contact), and Order code 1SFL 557 001 R 69 11.
or, Type AF300-30-22 (with 2 NO + 2 NC aux. contacts), and Order code 1SFL 557 001 R 69 22
where code (69) is for 48...130V 50/60Hz.
b) coil consumption:
b.1) average pull-in value 470VA on 60Hz.
b.2) average holding value 10/2.5 VA/W on 60Hz.

Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[edison123]

Che - Thank you for patiently answering all my questions. Much appreciated.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in

 

[che12345]

Hello edison123

Dimensional details of AF300 in case you need it.
AF300 c/w 1 x CAL + E 320 DU electronic O/L relay
(L x W x H) mm, 383.6 x 140 x 180.5
Note: CAL = aux. contact block

Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[ScottyUK]

To bring a little balance to the ABB-centric discussion, this Siemens catalog lists the AC-4 ratings for their block contactors alongside the AC-1 and AC-3 ratings.

https://publikacje.siemens-info.com/pdf/404/IC12_02_SIRIUS_EN_Teil_2.pdf

The Sirius range of contactors have long been one of my preferred brands because they are remarkably durable, even with unforgiving loads. It's also one of the few ranges to include LV vacuum contactors which are particularly suited to AC-4 duty and, now I've bothered looking for it, are certified by the marine underwriters such as DNV and Lloyds register.

I think the vacuum type might well be worth looking at for your application: I used the vacuum contactors to rebuild the starters for some liquid gas pumps which require the pump oil system to be primed by jogging the motor a few times; the jogging was doing the original starters no good at all and we suffered numerous failures. So far the rebuilt ones have been flawless.

The 3RT1264 contactor has an AC-4 / 200,000 cycle life with a motor running current of 97A, the 3RT1265 has the same life with a motor running current of 115A. Both seem like a pretty good fit for your application.

 

[che12345]

Dear Mr ScottyUK
Thank you for sharing the excellent link where all technical data rated for AC4 and certification/approval are published.

Hello edison123
Look up the link on TR contactors in page 3/105
Pay particular attention on : ... The following applied to 200,000 operating cycles and ...the rated power for squirrel-cage motor at 50/60 Hz at ....V
FYI: all major contactor manufacturers do furnish data on AC4 rating and are suitable for marine application.
Your choice is not limited to a X manufacturer. Go to Y or even Z ...
Following are some factors to be taken into consideration
a) availability, at your location,
b) price,
c)technical back-up ..., response time,
e) perhaps? it is also advisable to select the Brand/Type of the contactor that is certified by the same classification society of the off-shore oil rig that you are working on.

Che Kuan Yau (Singapore)

 

[edison123]

Thanks Scotty.

Muthu

http://www.edison.co.in