Accepting then declining 3

[EECardinal]

Is it ethical to accept an offer then decline at a later date. I feel that the company has not done their part to help me, i was made an offer at the first of January and I'm not one month from graduation and still have no start date, but i just got another offer thats even better. Is it wrong to back out now? There is no contract and it says that the company or I can end the employment relationship at any time for any or no reason.

 

[GregLocock]

Well, reread your own post. This forum is called Ethics, not Miss Manners.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[oneintheeye]

well I verbally accepted an offer once then got another two days later (which was a friday before I was due to start the first job on the monday) and then called declined (told them I wouldn't be coming)to the first one and took the second. Points to note in my case, job one wasn't permanent (contract) and there was a chance the office was relocating (which it did about 100 miles less than a year later). So I was glad I did it. 1) Ethically ok cause they could get rid of me after a week if they wanted. 2) Is it polite? Probably not but see point 1.

 

[moltenmetal]

Fresh out of school I took the " a deal's a deal" route. Got an offer three days later for 13% more money, but declined based on the fact that I'd already accepted an offer from someone else.

Took my post-grad holiday, paid first and last month's rent on an apartment, moved in, and went to see my new boss. He said, "Hi, welcome to XXX- your pay's been cut by 5%". I'd rejected an offer 4% lower from them previously in negotiation.

Firm #2 had long ago moved on and hired someone else.

So there I was- rewarded for my "ethics" by 18% less pay than I could have been making, and 1% less than an offer I had already rejected.

Remember that this is just business and a job offer is just that- an offer. You can accept it- so you have an offer and acceptance. But since no money or other "compensation" changes hands, this does NOT CONSTITUTE A CONTRACT.

Work where you feel you'll do best- for them AND for you. Forget about which offer comes in first. Good luck to you!

 

[MikeHalloran]

Don't expect them to be happy about it, but
"Employment At Will" works both ways.


Most American companies don't set the ethical bar very high in their dealings with customers, suppliers, government, or competitors.
In their dealings with employees, they set the ethical bar below the frost line.





Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

 

[SNORGY]

You haven't "accepted" until you have returned a signed and dated form or letter of acceptance.

Regards,

SNORGY.

 

[YoungTurk]

Your on the wrong end of your career to worry about loyalty. Even if you're a really loyal guy, they have nothing invested in you.

Take a cue from Toucan Sam and follow your nose.

 

[marks1080]

You have made no contract as of yet. They will understand if you take the higher paying job. Thank them and be polite about it. Also be honest about why you are taking a different job. They might even offer you more money to stay with them.

 

[brandoncdg]

My example was interviewing after working at my first job for 1 year. The structural offered me the job basically right after the interview. I accepted. I got back to the office and the owner sat me down with another close person to me in the company and talked me out of taking the job after 4 hours. When I told the company no, they were pretty mad.

I did this again at the next job I took. I accepted and was talked out of it, with a large raise and yada yada. That company was not so happy either.

You will burn your bridges, as the engineering community is smaller than it appears, but do what is best for yourself. Always remember though if you have any form of ambition in this profession you will meet these people again.

Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading

http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com

http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog

 

[11echo]

Do you think "they" will feel "sad" when they lay you off?!! Business is business, it cuts both ways.

 

[mauricestoker]

In other forums engineers have bemoaned the lack of status and dwindling economic rewards going to engineers. I don't know whether this would be considered "loyalty" or "business sense". If you have an opportunity to advance your financial position in an area you may enjoy, go for it.
If a sense of loyalty is a constraint, consider doing charity work in your spare time. Get what you can going in the door, it might not be avalable later. I've been in the same position, including coming out of school. Even with a contract, you never know whether a company is going to force you to hire a lawyer to enforce the contract, or whether you will be in the next round of layoffs. I've been in those places before, too. Get it while you can.

 

[Patgeotech]

I agree with mauricestoker - you are entering into the real world, which you are entitled to get the best financial start from. The company made an offer, no formal contract signed, hence you are free to chose where you would like to go. At the moment you probably lack the experience factor and do not have much bargaining power - so go get the best offer you can, and start from as good a starting point as possible. The bargaining power will come later if things are not good.

 

[IRstuff]

Part of your answer will depend on whether you think you might ever have to look for a job with them in the future. While companies don't necessarily hold grudges, people sometimes do.

And although I wouldn't necessarily push you into keeping your apparent commitment to them, it's something to consider, particularly if the job neighborhood is small. It might not take much to build up a reputation as a fickle, flighty person.


TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[gibfrog]

I agree with GregLocock. Either your word is your bond or not.

Sometimes you will "lose" money on a job or leave money on the table. Oh well......




Clifford H Laubstein
FL PE 58662

 

[mauricestoker]

Your word is your bond? A verbal contract is not worth the paper it is written on. If you live in fear of what may happen, then you are in the wrong business, perhaps you should look into a daycare career.

 

[ajack1]

Without a written contract nothing is legally binding, that is for sure.

Personally I try to live my life along the lines of treating others as I would want them to treat me, that does not make me the most successful of business man but I sleep well at night.

Again personally I hope you turn down the first offer and then the second company contacts you and says actually we have found someone who will work for less so our offer no longer stands.

People who behave in this way deserve to meet others who act in the same way be they employers or employees, only then might they start to realise that there is a better way.

 

[patprimmer]

I don't know about the USA, but in Australia, a verbal contract is technically a legally binding contract, however it is only as enforceable as the evidence you have to enforce.

Diary notes, confirmation letters and especially reliable witnesses are very useful. Under Australian law a dispute would be heard by a judge who would decide on balance of probabilities.

Don't ask me how I know.

I may be old fashioned or naive, but I think your word is your bond, however wherever possible back it up with some documentation signed by both parties or copied to third parties.



Regards
Pat
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[ajack1]

Are you sure about that Pat?

I know Australian law is very much based on English law and here in England verbal contracts are legally binding, but notoriously hard to prove, however there are exceptions and employment contracts and property transfer are two of those.

 

[GregLocock]

If someone offered n\me a job, verbally, and read out the full contract, and asked if I accepted, then that is one thing.

If someone says "so do you want the job" without me seeing the paperwork, that is another thing entirely.



Cheers

Greg Locock


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[patprimmer]

I agree.

There is a grey area between a serious expression of interest and a firm commitment.

Before it is a firm commitment basic details like salary and conditions and starting date must be agreed.

My verbal contract was over contract employment, not salaried so that might be different. It never came to a head, I just felt a need to get advice at the time.

Regards
Pat
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