Access to currency when traveling abroad 4

[Sparweb]

I was recently traveling in China.
I didn't give much thought to currency before leaving; not enough it turned out. I planned to stop at a currency exchange desk once landing at the airport, get some Reminbi's, and pick up a SIM card for my phone. I also had loaded Wechat app on my phone, and located a couple of banks in the vicinity of my lodgings (Changsha city).
The plan started to break down when the price for the SIM card turned out to be rather inflated at the airport, however I needed the phone to work to get in touch with my ride from the airport. So that used up most of the RMB cash supply I had just changed. I didn't take this too seriously, expecting to top up at a bank or an ATM, once I got settled.

No luck. Among the things attempted, which failed:
[ul][li]Accessing my bank at either the China Bank of Communications or Bank of China branches,[/li]
[li]Accessing my bank at any ATM,[/li]
[li]Accessing my credit card using an ATM,[/li]
[li]Phoning my credit card company (in the middle of the night),[/li]
[li]Transferring money from my credit card into Wechat (but I could enter the card data),[/li]
[li]Using credit cards at point-of-sale[/li]
[/ul]
The only solution that finally worked was to have a friend transfer money to me, and that money already had to be RMB.
I could guess that anti-laundering laws would prevent currency conversion in the Wechat phone app, so I didn't even bother asking my friends with north american currency to transfer money to me, because it would also be a dead end.

So now that I'm back and I've paid back all my friends, clearly I need to think that through much better next time. Any recommendations?
This kind of travel may become more frequent for me and my co-workers, so I'm thinking of asking the company to open a bank account in China for us to use. Settling the balance when several of us are using the account at once will not be easy, but I've already noticed that they are all pretty diligent with receipts. Anyone expect any problems with that idea?


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[IRstuff]

At the 3rd/4th generations, learning Chinese is as hard as it would be for a non-Asian. Without any reinforcement at home it's doubly hard. Everything I learned in summer Chinese school evaporated within about a year after it ended.

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[casseopeia]

Just out of curiosity, not that I will have to deal with this any time soon,

Do other countries have civil forfeiture laws like the US? If you are stopped for even a minor infraction, the police can take your cash, especially if it is a large sum, and assume that you have a large sum of money on you for nefarious reasons.

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[ornerynorsk]

Cass, not sure about other countries, but in the US there doesn't even need to be an infraction. All they (authorities) have to do is to suspect that the cash is for/from nefarious purposes, and they can seize it. No due process at all, and not limited to only cash.

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[IRstuff]

"All they (authorities) have to do is to suspect "

That might actually be generous. A single officer, SAYING that he suspects, is all that's needed. Many examples exist of poor schmucks carrying cash for relatively innocent purposes having spent months/years trying to recover their property.



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[ornerynorsk]

You are correct IRstuff. A plurality is not needed.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[IRstuff]

Another time I agree with you; it seems pretty obvious that this has to be unconstitutional, but there have been no test cases that have passed muster to get to SCOTUS.

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[Sparweb]

"unconstitutional"
In your example, are you talking about an individual peace officer, apprehending and seizing the property of a foreign national, or any citizen of the US?
Sounds like a shakedown to me.

AFAIK, only the courts can do this in Canada - and not all provinces allow the courts to do this.

No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
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[berkshire]

In Britain the guidelines are : Statement

This policy sets out the Merseyside Police Force procedure for the seizure of cash under Section 294 of the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 (POCA). A police officer has the power to search for, seize and seek further detention and forfeiture of cash that is, or represents, property obtained through unlawful conduct or is intended to be used in unlawful conduct. The amount must not be less than the minimum amount specified in an order made by the Secretary of State (currently £1,000). The search provisions should normally only be exercised with prior approval and are covered by the Codes of Practice that have been distributed to all police stations in Merseyside.
So it would appear that in the UK the answer is yes.
B.E.

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[hokie66]

I think most western countries, and probably a lot of others, have legislation dealing with seizing of proceeds of crime. This typically requires a warrant, or if the proceeds are found in perhaps a vehicle being lawfully searched for some reason, then a court would have to follow up with a seizure order.

This thread has strayed a long way from SparWeb's problem. Another related issue is the amount of cash allowed to be transported through Customs. This varies from country to country, and usually you are allowed to bring in more than you can take out.

 

[IRstuff]

It's ANY person, in the US, citizen or not. Someone seizes your property and simply fills out a form saying they suspected criminal activity. No burden or proof, no appeals, no nothing.

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[hokie66]

Surely that is hyperbole, IRstuff. Do you have any case studies to back that up? Not just something from Huffington Post, please.

 

[Sparweb]

Point well taken hokie66, thank you, it is off topic, though it is also interesting.


No one believes the theory except the one who developed it. Everyone believes the experiment except the one who ran it.
STF

 

[jgailla]

hokie,
It's a well known fact in the US that the police can take your property without a conviction.

http://www.michiganradio.org/post/b...viction-order-keep-confiscated-property-money

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ictions-controversial-police-seizures-n784476

 

[ornerynorsk]

No hokie66, IRstuff is absolutely correct. It's a very insidious tool of the remnants of the war on drugs. It doesn't happen with alarming frequency, but there are many cases well known of it happening. An absolute nightmare for the innocent party to get their cash or belongings back.

Really not so off-topic. Traveling with cash always carries a risk, as does traveling without it.

It is better to have enough ideas for some of them to be wrong, than to be always right by having no ideas at all.

 

[casseopeia]

My brother (who is much more political than I am) and my accountant warned me about carrying large sums of cash. And it's really not off topic. I have been thinking about this kind of thing because there is the very real possibility that I will be traveling abroad for work looking at structures damaged in earthquake, Hurricanes or Typhoons and sometimes fires.

here is another actual story about civil forfeiture in the US
Link

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[hokie66]

I don't have much sympathy with people who carry a large amount of cash around with them, or conceal it in their home. That's what banks are for. Why ask for trouble? All sorts of criminals, but outlaw motorcycle gangs and other drug dealers in particular, need this sort of attention from the police.

 

[dgallup]

Most used vehicle purchases between individuals involve significant amounts of cash. Could be $5,000, could be $40,000 or more. I've done this myself. Typically involves Craig's list, well lit parking lots, 3rd parties packing heat and a lot of posturing. Just like a drug deal except for the lighting and lack of contraband. Any passerby could mistake the whole thing and confiscate the cash and the vehicle.

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[hokie66]

"Any passerby"? I suppose you mean any armed robber.

 

[IRstuff]

"people who carry a large amount of cash around with them, or conceal it in their home. That's what banks are for. Why ask for trouble? All sorts of criminals, but outlaw motorcycle gangs and other drug dealers in particular, need this sort of attention from the police.

It's irrelevant why they do it; there's still no excuse for the police to confiscate your property without due process, particularly if there isn't an iota of proof of malfeasance. There are even restaurants that won't accept anything but cash. Likewise, there are sellers that don't want the carrying costs of credit cards or cashing checks, for whatever reason, likely to skirt taxes, but that's their problem, not the buyer's.

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[hokie66]

We'll just have to agree to disagree, IRstuff. I would prefer for the police to have appropriate powers to maintain the status quo at least until their suspicions are confirmed or not. But I am not talking about walking around cash, but rather large amounts. By and large, I respect and trust police, but perhaps you have reasons not to do so.