Acoustic leak location

[AMedhat]

Hi all,

How can i enhance my experience in acoustic leak location techniques for water distibution networks

I will use correlators, ground microphone, pipe locator, metal locator, valve box locator and measuring wheel.

I want to study the methods and techniques of leak location using these devices and want to know if there is a more effective way to detect leakage in water distibution networks .

thanks and best regards

 

[BigInch]

Nothing better than a running total of Volume_in - Volume_out over time.

"People will work for you with blood and sweat and tears if they work for what they believe in......" - Simon Sinek

 

[AMedhat]

Thanks for your reply (BigInch)
but my question is about how to use acoustic leak detection devices to Pinpoint a leak in water distibution network

 

[AMedhat]

By the way, the pipe diameter may vary from 150 mm to 800 mm and all are from metal (carbon steel and ductile iron)

 

[dicksewerrat]

there are some of these systems out there. Check WWW. trenchlesonline.com for systems in the publication.

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[vpl]

AMedhat,

Do you know for certain that you have a leak? Is your piping buried? accessible? somewhat accessible?

A better description of what you're trying to do will help us help you.

Patricia Lougheed

******

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[IRstuff]

He appears to only have a knowledge problem, not an actual hardware problem.

TTFN
faq731-376

 

[dicksewerrat]

you will need a couple of welding rods about 30 inches long. Put a 90 degree bend in both about 6 inches from one end. Now you have 'witch wand' to locate pipes. you will need a valve box 'key' or 'stem' to listen for leaks. As you get closer to the leak it will get louder.

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[AMedhat]

vpl,

It is a potable water distribution network i with almost buried pipes

and I am responsible for making a team to enter the business of leak detection specially acoustic leak location for potable water distibution network

I have read a lot about acoustic leak location and we will try to get a trainning from SEWERIN company, but i want a technical support from an experienced engineer or at least good advise even if it was about something special to read

Thanks for all replies

regards,
Ahmed

 

[urgross]

Keep your ear to the ground.

 

[vpl]

My two cents is that leaks in buried water pipes are frequently found by these methods: (1) the ground is soggy, (2) there is a sinkhole in the soggy ground and (3) someone complains about the sinkhole in the soggy ground. If there is pavement over the soggy ground, frequently you go directly to steps (2) and (3).

I'm not saying acoustic methods don't work. I'm just not a believer.

Patricia Lougheed

******

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[AMedhat]

vpl,

many leaks can not be obsereved for months and this causes very high losses for water, power and infrastructure

my question is focused on the acoustic leak detection for potable water distibution networks

 

[vpl]

AMedhat, I understand your question. Unfortunately, I can't help you, as I don't really believe that the acoustic monitors work. Others may disagree. Training from a vendor would definitely be worthwhile, but it seems like you could spend a lot of money chasing non-existant leaks. Best of luck with use of them. Come back and let us know how they work. Maybe I'll change my mind.

Patricia Lougheed

******

Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[urgross]

I have seen the acoustic system work very well, provided that aboveground pipe attachment locations, such as hydrants, are available. Google search will yield a lot of info.

Whether the ground will ever get squishy depends a whole lot on your soils. If you're in a karst area, millions of gallons can go down a sinkhole and you probably won't even know until it washes out enough to take out a road, building, or just give a new water feature.

 

[BigInch]

The basic problem with acoustics on water systems is that the tost of the system, operation, interpretation and analysis of results, never mind digging up the leak and repairing them, is that those things cost way more than the actual cost of the water lost in most cases, and to find larger leaks, you don't need them.

"People will work for you with blood and sweat and tears if they work for what they believe in......" - Simon Sinek

 

[stanweld]

I have used AE to locate leaks in welded steel pipe lines. I do not believe that you will be able to use acoustic techniques in your ductile iron line joined by flanged or bell & spigot jointing methods because of the sound attenuation at each joint.

 

[AMedhat]

This PDF proves the benifits of acoustic survey for water distibution systems

Thanks for all replies,but let me know if anyone has a good advice

regards

 

[urgross]

Itron might be a good source of information.

Aocustical detection with drive-by logging can also be rented for one time testing. It was accurate enough where used to be able to correct as-built drawings for our softened water lines. I was trying to figure out where about 12 million gallons of softwater was going every year because no obvious leaks showed up until a giant sinkhole opened up in the road outside of the engineering building. We went through the rental solution, found several leaks. Since we do daily log tracking, no more leaks have been idicated and consumption is down about 20% (12,000,000 gallons/yr).

I saw a presentation on the ERDEC study when it came out in 2007. I was more impressed with the Iton system.