ADA question 1

[ACtrafficengr]

We're replacing a trail footbridge, and I have a question. Is there a way to keep ATVs and dirt bikes off the bridge that will still meet ADA requirements? I was thinking maybe a right angle turn on the approaches, since wheelchair users can turn on a tighter radius than an ATV. It might not stop dirt bikes, but it would help.

 

[SlideRuleEra]

Bollards placed with 32" clearance between them meet ADA requirements for wheelchair access, and block all but the smallest ATVs. Doubt bollards would even slow down a dirt bike. We had a "Rails-to-Trails" project some years ago and were unable to come up with a workable dirt bike solution.

http://www.SlideRuleEra.net

http://www.VacuumTubeEra.net

 

[gbam]

Can you install a turnstyle? That would prohibit ATVs.

 

[IRstuff]

Not clear that wheelchairs can navigate turnstiles...

ADA requirements allow for "doors" to have narrower gaps than hallways:

http://www.karmanhealthcare.com/how-wide-does-a-doorway-need-to-be-for-a-wheelchair/

Most ATVs appear to be wider than the allowable ADA hallway width of 36" However, ADA requirements for allowing turning of the wheelchair would require 48" width, so the most prudent design would be 48" width with right angle turns, which would still be tough on ATVs, since they tend to be on the order of 48" or wider for stability and tend to be longer than 48".

What limitations are you trying to impose on dirt bikes? Would you allow them to walk their bikes? Or are you trying to prevent them from riding their bikes? And at what speed? If they go slow enough? It might be possible to design a roadway surface undulation spacing that would make it difficult to ride a bike at more than, say, 5 mph. Wouldn't be much fun for wheelchairs either, possibly.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //

http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

faq731-376 forum1529

 

[bridgebuster]

You could try calling the Regional Landscape Architect for NYSDOT; might have some ideas.

 

[Debaser]

Stupid question, but are/will ATVs and dirt bikes likely to be a problem, or is this pre-empting something you suspect? In the UK we're slowly looking to improve conditions for cyclists, amongst other things providing off-road tracks of decent width. There's always someone who will pop up and ask what we'll do to prevent mis-use - before the thing even exists!

If this is a current problem and likely to re-occur I'd be careful about designing to the minimum dimensions one often sees in guidance documents. As I'm sure you're aware, it's never certain how some of these figures have been arrived at, and assuming someone can do something based on ideal conditions may not necessarily translate when that someone is fatigued or is otherwise 'non-standard'. For example, as an able-bodied but unfit individual, some of those gradients people in wheelchairs are supposed to be able to manage look much more challenging when you take their place.

 

[BUGGAR]

We use motion detectors connected to sprinklers to deter graffiti artists. Why not hook up a heat sensor that would hose down anything over 125 degrees F?

 

[ACtrafficengr]

Debaser, the bridge is currently closed and impassible, and we're working on a replacement structure. I don't know if it is an active concern or something raised by a worry-wart. This is a nature preserve/historical site in a developed area, not a back-country hiking path, so we're supposed to provide some level of handicapped accessibility.

I think there is something to be said for just posting a motor vehicle prohibition to start with, and installing stiles of some sort as needed.

BUGGAR, the nearest water source would be stagnant pond water. That should deter repeat offenders! Too bad there isn't a nearby power supply.

 

[Debaser]

These are the standard solution in the UK.

http://www.kbarriers.co.uk/a-frame-barrier/

Problem is they don't really work!. To give enough clearance for most bicycle handlebars leaves just enough room for a determined motorbike user to get their machine through - although even then, hand-cycles, etc. used as mobility aids probably won't be able to get through. So the default is usually to put them so close neither cyclists nor motorcyclists can get past them (presumably the logic goes that discriminating against all cyclists means you're not singling out disabled cyclists for especially poor treatment).

I'd go with SRE's suggestion of a bollard to stop ATVs, but if bicycles are to be allowed and catered for then I suspect motorbikes are more or less unstoppable.

BTW, I believe the Dutch do as IRstuff has suggested, using an undulating surface over a short distance - this at least has the effect of slowing motorised bikes/scooters.

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/11/speedbumps-on-cycle-path.html

 

[IRstuff]

Well, at least, there are ADA compliant turnstiles.

http://www.haywardturnstiles.com/handicap-access-security-gates.cfm

They didn't show a double-sided one, i.e., like the doors of a movie western saloon; they had something similar at Home Depot, but I think they got rid of it. It always seemed annoying, since both doors needed to be negotiated when driving a shopping cart, which would also apply to wheelchairs.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //

http://www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx

faq731-376 forum1529

 

[bimr]

A workable dirt bike solution is a warning sign plus a camera.

 

[dicksewerrat]

a retired Marine with a taser should stop dirt bikes.

Richard A. Cornelius, P.E.

http://WWW.amlinereast.com

 

[ADAguy]

First, I strongly recommend that the Forum add an ADA section.

Second; go to 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design (ADASAD) chapters 2 (scoping) and chapter 10 for outdoor activities.

Note: yes, the minimum clear width between bollards is 32" and the clear minimum footprint for a wheel chair is 30 x 48". 30" is typically the wheelbase for most mobility vehicles.

Parallel concerns with regards to your bridge are running slope <5% and cross slope 2% max, guardrail height, picket spacing and POT from parking to the bridge.

 

[ACtrafficengr]

Thanks, ADAguy.

The trail to the bridge isn't accessible, yet, but it could be, so we're planning on making the bridge accessible in case we ever get funding to upgrade the path. The terrain is flat, so it shouldn't be too difficult. It might be difficult in a standard wheelchair, but it should be doable in one with larger front wheels.

I like the idea of ADA coverage. Would you have separate fora for sidewalk/pedestrian/accessible route questions and interior ADA topics like doorways, lavatories, desks, ATMs, etc.?

What's POT?

 

[ADAguy]

Wow!

Need to know ADA?
I have 35 years worth of references on this topic.
I will try to be nice, as an architect we must know ADA and so too must/should CE's.

Contact me directly and I will be glad to share with you (smiling).

The trail material must be "rollable" stabilized DG works well.
You also need to review wheelchair history to view their current state of development, they have come a long way.
also note trails are not just for the mobility limited, sight and sound come into play too as it is the "experience" that counts.

What state are you in? Most everything you need to "catch-up on" is available for "free" from DOJ/Access Board website and monthly on line webinars.
There is an annual Symposium for those like yourself to gain an initial immersion into all things access. It will be in Denver for 4 days in June 2016.
Google ADA Symposium 2016 Denver and the list of classes will come up. Most bang for the buck, 850 attendees last year from all 50 states. Very few A & E's!