Adding 2 stroke oil to diesel fuel 4

[PPilki]

Hi,
I seeking some factual info - good and bad - on the current trend thats sweeping across all the car user forums on the web - adding 2 stroke oil to diesel. I thought this Forum could add some reality to all the "its works for me" type of posts you read elsewhere (Google it, they are endless !).

Its the new snake oil - or is it ? I've actually tried it in my Nissan TD42 and it does seem to have an effect. The engine is quieter and pulls better. Although I've not proved the lower fuel consumption bit yet, its looking good, certainly not worse.

So whats going on ? Why does adding 2T oil to ULSD suddenly make the engine seem a different beast ? Why does no manufacturer recommend this ? Why does the current ULSD respond to this treatment when the fuel suppliers say the fuel already has lubricity alternatives to the sulphur thats been removed ? Surely if a simple mix of 2T solves problems we need some facts from the fuel makers as to whats wrong with the current ULSD blend ?

Answers guys, and sorry if its already been covered, post me the link, I searched but didn't find anything.

 

[evelrod]

Okay....It is now Wednesday and I put a pint can of two stroke oil (Sears brand, no idea who actually made it. It's been on the shelf for several years) last Saturday. The 30+ gal. tank was just below the "half full mark" and today is about "one quarter" (my odo broke about ten years ago so I don't know how many miles...I get 21 MPG usually).

To bottom line this-----I don't see, feel or, hear anything different, unusual or strange. Nothing! Nada!

Rod

 

[JWaterstreet]

I agree that people may be able to hear/detect subtle differences in engine sound. That said, I don't believe anyone that says they can detect a change in sound or performance by going to a 1:200 ratio mix of oil and diesel vs straight diesel. This is snake-oil effect at its finest hour.

 

[lawayosh]

Rod -

Obviously, the pedigree of the oil is why you felt no improvement. If you had dumped in some Torco, Castrol or really old (like me) Steen C you might have been plastered to the back of your seat.

This kind of stuff has been going around for some time and the Dodge/Cummins (Turbo Diesel Register) folks have pretty much come up with the same results you did.

Yosh

 

[JSteve2]

It is well documented and repeatable that if you get your blood alcohol content up to about 1:300 you can be plastered to the back of your seat (although you shouldn't get in your car then). Don't go for 1:200 or you might be dead.

 

[PPilki]

OK guys, hold back, snake oil it is then. I knew I could rely on you lot to put me straight !

To put a slightly different twist on the discussion, whats the best way of adding some sulphur back into ULSD for the old timer motors that need this for lubrication ?

Once you've got the sulphur levels back up (is there a limit ?) do you need to consider what spec of sump oil you use to cope with the new sulphur ?

Or is there some other way of getting the fuel system lubricated ?

Or maybe, I'm just worrying unnecessily !

 

[SomptingGuy]

Maybe the nostalgic smell from the exhaust makes the car feel nicer to drive? I used to really enjoy passing cars on my RD350 on full throttle, giving them the joy of fully synthetic 2 stroke oil.

- Steve

 

[drwebb]

Ultra Low Sulfer Diesel in most western countries is supposed to meet a specification for lubricity, measured by an apparatus called a High Frequency Reciporicating Rig. So prolly the best way to put your mind at ease is to get your diesel from a reputable supplier. I have some familiarity with the test method (from a project looking at gasoline instead of diesel), and my experience is almost any lubricity improver will move it at very low levels. 0.2-0.3% of vegetable oil will boost lubricity significantly. Although that is a pretty low level, I don't know it wouldn't affect low temperature properties or long-term injector fouling. The commercial additives used at fuel terminals to adjust ULSD lubricity have had extensive no harm testing. It's not hard to improve the lubricity of ULSD with additives, just expensive from a terminal point-of-view.

 

[BrianPetersen]

Also, as I understand it, it's a myth that sulfur itself acts as a lubricant. It's a holdover from the original process that was used to remove sulfur when "low sulfur diesel" (500 ppm) was first implemented ... the process accidentally removed other compounds that are the actual lubricants. When the process was corrected, the problem went away. ULSD should not have this problem because the issue is well known now. So, it isn't necessary to "add sulfur" to ULSD for older engines ... only to ensure that the ULSD meets the standards for lubricity, and as noted above, this should only require buying it from a reputable source.

 

[evelrod]

I can only add my experience with my own Dodge, a '91 one ton duelly. Bought it new in Feb '91, odo quit at 186k sometime around 1999/2000 so I'm guessing it has something less that 400k on it now. Never used much additives as I never saw/felt any improvement. The thing still runs as new, not much smoke, no oil used between services...I hate to say it but it's been over a year since I last changed the oil (I'll get to it, Pat D, promise). Still on the original heater and radiator hoses. Replaced the serpentine belt a couple times, a couple brake jobs, Flushed the tranny a couple times (you cannot drain the TC without drilling and tapping in a drain plug) did the valve lash once at 110,000. That's it. It just goes and goes.

Major costs in the last 18+ years---One LR wheel bearing, one RR brake drum (broken brake adjuster), one RF brake rotor (broken brake pad), one oil cooler hose (abraded) and, of course since it's a 90's era truck, all the paint blew off it and it was repainted about ten years ago. That's it, good truck.

I think I'll just continue doing what has worked well for the last 18 years. Maybe I'll look into fixing the odo. Naw...When the "Low Fuel" comes on I can still go an easy hundred miles and that's plenty of time to refuel. Oh! Did I forget to mention that the "fuel guage" is a bit dyslexic?

Rod

 

[ivymike]

not necessarily the same as what happens in fuel, but...

http://www.noria.com/learning_center/category_article.asp?articleid=496

How Do EP Gear Oils Protect Against Wear?
EP gear oils contain additives that prevent metal surfaces from cold welding under the extreme pressure conditions found in situations where boundary lubrication prevails. At the high local temperatures associated with metal-to-metal contact, an EP additive combines chemically with the metal to form a surface film that is ductile enough to prevent the welding of opposing asperities and prevent scuffing or scoring that is destructive to sliding surfaces under high loads (Figure 1). Chemically reactive compounds of sulfur, phosphorus and sometimes chlorine, are used to form these inorganic films.

didn't read it ($12):

http://www.sae.org/technical/papers/902175

Fuel Sulfur Effects on Diesel Engine Lubrication

Lubricant additives: chemistry and applications

http://books.google.com/books?id=Qb...AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=sulfur as lubricant&f=false

 

[TheBlacksmith]

Once again, based on some internet posting (it must be true or it wouldn't be posted) and the results of the "butt" (seat of the pants) dyno, someone has bested all the automotive and petroleum engineers in the world. What would I do without the internet?

 

[SomptingGuy]

... you'd need to get all your information from a bloke in the pub.

- Steve

 

[gt6racer2]

I'm with Somptinguy ( and probably of the same era). My buddy and I used to add a bit of Castrol "R" to our XT500 four stroke singles just for that special aroma. Can't guarantee it ran better - but sure smelled good...