Adding assembly of components on detail prints. 4

[SDETERS]

We follow Asme Y14.5-2009. There is a new requirement for us to callout installing a plug onto our housing on our detail print. So for example we have a machining drawing of a casting with all of the proper dimensions. Then they want to add a view to say install this plug after machining, but they want to keep the same part number after the plug gets installed. Is there something in the standard that states we should change the part number, or is there a good way of managing the addition of this plug after machining on our drawing? We are also using NX so the Cad Management of these two parts will get interesting quickly also.

Thanks for any feedback

 

[jassco]

Hi, Sdeters:

What is your intent? Do you plan to get housing with a plug, or do you want to get both housing and housing with a plug? If you want to get both of them, you will need two different part numbers. It has nothing to do with your CAD system(s).

If you want to get housing with a plug only and you don't want to get housing, then you can do a revision to add the plug.

Best regards,

Alex

 

[CheckerHater]

1 part = part
2 parts = assembly

Is your new drawing going to have some sort of Bill of material, like a) Part, b) Plug, or is it purely for illustrative purpose, like "Plug this hole after machining"?

If it's the second, you can show plug in phantom and still have 1 part part drawing.

If drawing has BOM but you still call it "part", that's kinda questionable. (But I've seen worse)

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert"
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[SDETERS]

What we are trying to accomplish, is to claim one final part after the part is machined, and the plug installed. It is more of a process claim thing, for our BOM management system. Think of it as a subassembly before it goes to the assembly line.

Is your new drawing going to have some sort of Bill of material, like a) Part, b) Plug, or is it purely for illustrative purpose, like "Plug this hole after machining"?

Yes one drawing that will have a BOM, and fully dimensioned machine part. The plug will be its own part number and have its own print that will stand on its own.
Yes the drawing will have dimensions and a BOM>
Thanks for the feedback.

 

[jassco]

Hi, Sdeters:

Create an assembly drawing and add a couple of balloons and a BOM. Detail each component accordingly.

Best regards,

Alex

 

[TheTick]

Is there something in the standard...?

A: Which standard?

Whatever your MRP system and internal standards allow. That's all.

Case in point--molded parts with inserts are often treated as parts, but still have a BOM in the MRP system. Don't get hung up on semantics. Make it work.

Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

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[3DDave]

That would be called an inseparable assembly and, depending on the using organization is treated as either a part or an assembly, with most indicating it's a part, but Product Data Management software in the manufacturer's system seeing it as an assembly.

It's not typical that a separate drawing is made for inseparable assemblies. These are common with helical or keyed inserts and with weldments. Sometimes the main part that is getting a plug or insert installed is not given it's own separate identifier, but that will have to be created for tracking the item on the factory floor.

see:

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=403465

https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=342233

 

[SDETERS]

This is what I was looking for, great information and thanks for the feedback. The inseparable drawing format seems the best direction to take. Once again do appreciate all of the feedback.

 

[TheTick]

"Inseparable assembly". Today I learned. Thanks, 3DDave!

 

[mfgenggear]

In my neck of the woods an inseparable assembly it would be destroyed if tried to disassemble. , a plug is not considered that. a plug can be pushed or pulled out with out damaging the main part.
however in my opinion a new part # for the assembly should be created. inseparable a assembly would be like a swaged on part, or welded. etc..

 

[3DDave]

It's a gray area - it is possible to arrange a design so a press-fit installed item would be un-pressed without damaging it and the item re-used, but it's not as likely. And there are non-press fit items, such as "stretch bolts" that are separable and not reused.

 

[mfgenggear]

it can be . and it depends on the type of plug. for example freeze plugs on a engine can and is replaced very easily.
seals in the same engine can be replace very easily. and some bolts are supposed to be replace very easily but get seized.
with corrosion thus must be replaced. bearings can be designed to be replaced. head gaskets are junk once removed.

in rotating hollow shafts the are plug pushed in the inside diameter to prevent fluid loss or contamination. just some examples.
and are not to be replaced. but in manufacturing for what ever reason it can be. if rework is required, or repair such as
grind plate grind to repair diameters.

 

[jassco]

Hi,

It does not matter whether an item is separable or not.

If you create print(s) for an item that consists of two items, then you create an assembly. You'll need a BOM and balloons to describe them. An inseparable part belongs to sub-set of assembly.

Best regards,

Alex

 

[jassco]

Hi,

OP's question is whether he needs one part no. or two different part no.

If you want to get two different "things", you will need two separate part no.

Part No. "ABC" for the housing;

Part NO. "XYZ" for the housing with a plug (part no. "123").

You should not detail this plug on "XYZ" though as it may be used in some different assemblies.

Best regards,

Alex

 

[SwinnyGG]

To add to the confusion...

If you want to get two different "things", you will need two separate part no.

Your use of the word 'get' is confusing. What exactly do you mean by 'get'?


Anyway.

OP, as the engineer managing this design, needs THREE part numbers. He needs a part number for the finished casting, a part number for the plug, and a part number for the plug/casting assembly.

I don't know who 'they' is in OP's story - is 'they' a customer? is 'they' the next engineer in the internal design chain?

Anyway, doesn't matter. ASME Y14.100 directs that any time a part is changed such that it is no longer fully interchangeable with the previous version of this part in every respect, that part requires a new part number.

So, OP, if your original part had a plug added later, the new assembly with the plug included cannot utilize the same part number. If your original part did not accept a plug at all, and the new one does, your new assembly with casting and plug also cannot use the same part number as the old part.

No matter how you slice it, you need a new part number.

 

[SDETERS]

Thanks for the great conversation A little bit update.

For the "They" this would be our internal processes. For example we want to receive the raw material, machine the part, wash the part, and then install the plug. Then once this is all done we want to claim one machine part number. This would flush and drive demand for the Raw material part and plug in our MRP system. We have kicked this around a bit more, and we are going away from this original idea, and we will be keeping the three parts (machined housing, raw material housing, and plug). So this will be more traditional and straight forward, with an assembly drawing calling out the machine housing, (without all of the machining dimensions) and Plug. We found a way in our MRP system that we can handle this correctly.

Thanks again do appreciate all of the feedback and comments..

 

[jassco]

Hi, SwinnyGG:

"Get" is a laymen's term for "Procure". OP will need to either have them (housing and housing with a plug) made in house or have them ordered via PO.

If OP needs to "get" (make or order) both of them, he or she will need to have two different part no. Additionally, he or she will need a print to "get" the plug unless the plug comes with the housing from the vendor.

Best regards,

Alex

 

[SirPhobos]

Anything that needs to be handled/ordered separately seems like it would need it's own identifying number. The machining could be called-out and dimensions provided by the assembly drawing (as opposed to a separate drawing for the part without plug). But you'd still need to call for the material in the BOM.

Assembly = ASSY-123, includes a drawing with BOM calling out for RAW-456 and PLUG-789. Drawing also includes dimensions for machining of RAW-456.
Part = RAW-456. Exists only in the BOM management system. Used to order required material and ID the unmachined item. No drawing of RAW-456 exists by itself.
Plug = PLUG-789. This could have a drawing or be a purchased part.

-- SirPhobos