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Aegism - is it time to give old age a chance in the workplace?

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jmw

Industrial
Jun 27, 2001
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In times of recession Management most usually respond by culling the workforce and they do so in a way that often amplifies their normal attitudes to certain employee characteristics.

For example, age.

However, there have been a number of occasions or crises points where it has been the older employees "who have seen itall before" who appeared batter able to handle both the problem solving and the stress.

But am I wrong in thinking that most employers see old age as a defect rather than a benefit?

If so, then how welcome to see the Hudson Pilot ( is a wrinkly.

I am quite sure many passengers, under normal circumstances, would express an opinion that older pilots are more worrying than younger and mutter something about reflexes.
There is, of course, a saying:
"There are old pilots and there are old pilots but there are no old bold pilots." so an aged pilot ought to be seen as pretty safe and, probably because I am no spring chicken myself, I tend to favour aged wisdom over gung-ho reckless and self-confident youth.

So, how do we stand on age?
Is there justification for regarding older employees as a liability?
In this recession, is your age a factor that makes you concerned for your job security?
How many of you regard retirement age with mixed feelings?
Is engineering a better place for old age than elsewhere - that is, is age differently significant in engineering than in other occupations?

Is our view of old age for the average person unduly coloured by our perceptions of exceptions? For example, most maths genius is evident in the early 20s, it is said. Most sportsmen are at their peak in their youth. But is this a fair way to interpret age as a factor for the bulk of the population?

Is engineering different and if so, how?



JMW
 
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"While millions of hundreds of thousands of people have lost their jobs this year, as the recession bites,"

So how many's that? If a thousand million is a (modern/US) billion, and the population of the Earth is somewhere under 7 billion then it would appear this isn't just a world-wide recession it's inter galactic.

Or then he mean 'of' as in divide by, in which case I don't see what all the fuss is about.

KENAT,

Have you reminded yourself of faq731-376 recently, or taken a look at posting policies: What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484
 
So if when you are older and you aren't a specilist you are at risk of being replaced by a more productive younger.

The problem is in industry very little history is written down so the same mistakes happen about every 20 years.

At issue with recession job loss, it seems to be only in some sectors, and levels, while others seem to be going as fast as they were before. And again it may be just the specilist industries.

 
WHEngineer said: "...in consulting, there is little use for slackers, regardless of age. Productivity and profitability are the driving forces..."

...and I spewed coffee all over my screen in laughter!

"Consulting" is a very big world, obviously!

I've seen plenty of slackers providing valuable services as "billing units", while generating little if any useful productivity. The EPC contractors around here hire hundreds of drones to occupy cubicles during boom times, and promptly lay them off again when the cash cows dry up.

 
The problem with consultants is so many of them are almost clueless. It been so bad I've sent drawing back with the note "Try again".
You are either training a new guy, or they don't care if they meet your standards.

A few, just a few are really very good though.
 
When I got out of college nearly 30 years ago, the world was much different than it is now. Employees were considered to be "human resources" rather than overhead to be cast off at the next turn in the road.

Today, you're lucky if you can keep a job for more than three or four years due to downsizings, mergers, acquistions, global competition, outsourcing, etc. Since companies now seem more fixated than ever on getting the most bang for their buck, if and when they hire new employees, they want people who will work for less and do more. This pretty much excludes older workers who are stereotyped as being slow to learn new things, not being tech-savvy, having more health issues, being complacent, not being "team players," and wanting too much money.
 
We are suffering from terminology here. This is mine:

Consultants wear suits and charge fees to lay people off.
Contractors occupy cubes in fat times.
Consulting Engineers add value, insight and experience.

The company I've been working for for most of my working life is the third kind, although I'm no longing in technical consulting. We employ dozens of oldies and they bring experience and maturity to the party. Some of these guys are legends in their fields.

- Steve
 
Unlike in the power industry, where most consulting enginners are newbee grads, and when they get burned out then go to work for a power company.

Sort of infurrating to those of us who have to fix the newbee mistakes, and they get paid for it.

The problem is there are so few oldies to teach the newbees, and the field just dosen't seem to attract people like high tech.
 
I'm at one of the UK's better known consulting engineers to the power industry. There is a mix of guys on the cusp of retirement and some very bright and well-qualified graduates with huge potential and little experience. There is a void where people my age should be: an entire generation is almost completely missing from the industry, and it's not just in consulting, it's out there on the plants too. Twenty years time is gonna be real interesting.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 
Have you tried hireing the retired on a part time basis? We do this, and they work half a day, then play golf the other half. It works for us and them.
Besides many of then still have there contacts in other companies.

The gas people don't do this, but it appears they have a full staff. We just can't find the people on the electric side.
 
Yeah, there are quite a few in that position. Others are working on beyond nominal retirement age until the stock market picks up because the dip in the stock market has hit their pension funds pretty hard.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 
I don't think it's the stock market. I think many of them like what they do, and want to stay active.
And some just want to get away from there wives for a few hours each day.

Many actually like it better because they are outside much of the internal politics.
 
Power industry: guys with 10+ years of experience in any of rotating machines, AVRs, protection, transmission, turbines are all rare and expensive (well-paid!)


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!
 
You can also add in the power industry: protection technictions, system planning engineers, controls engineers, project engineers, linemen, and soon I believe nuculer engineers, and distribution engineers.
However there are more inroads to filling the distribution engineer, linemen and project engineer positions.

 
Moltenmetal, you must be buried in the corporate world. Most of us geotechs work for small consulting engineering firms that either produce a profit or go out of business. The older guys generally have a client base that they bring with them that the younger guys have yet to acquire. Maybe your consultants bill out newbies for doing nothing. If that is the case, obviously your management is not concerned with cost controls. Those of us in small engineering businesses know that we must produce something of value. Otherwise our clients will find someone who will.
 
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