aircraft structural liaison jobs 1

[bointucson]

hello there everyone. I am an aircraft structural mechanic with an A&P. i've worked production,repair, modification. is it possible to get a liaison job without a degree. or would taking a specialized course such as stress analysis help?

 

[Somber]

in my experience, yes - it is possible... but the window of opportunity is very narrow... Most of those that I have known (and that has been only a few out of the hundreds of engineers I've worked with) that have achieved a position as a "liaison" type engineer without a degree, did so working for a long time within the company/service that later confered the title to them...

with respect to the course making a difference, I would think that it could, but if the job says that it requires a specific degree - I doubt a single class (or even a couple) would sway the people filling the job...

I don't mean to discourage you, I've had the good fortune to do a bunch of stuff that I wasn't "qualified" for... but I just wanted to share my limited experience...

 

[davida3d]

Hello,
yes it is possible because I have done it. My best recommendation is to hit the Books hard. And when I mean Books I mean the SRM, OHM, Standards Manuals, Mil-Handbooks, Etc. When working a repair you need to know where to find answers fast. Learn to use the index so you won't spend hours surfing the tape. If you have access to the DC-9/MD-80 SRM read and learn how to use Chapter 51-30-0. It will show you how to design a correctly loaded sheet metal repair with the correct number of fasteners. Learn how to read and interpret Blueprints, Engineering orders, Service Bulletins, Parts lists, Etc. Learn about configuration research and effectivity. Learn about the material strength and properties of Fasteners, Aluminum and Steels used in Aviation. Learn about the repair of Bonded and Composite Assemblies. Learn about the many processes used such as Heat Treat, all the Different types of Plating used and why. Learn all about welding and the different welding processes. Learn about machining of Aluminum and Steel.( thats a gold mine in itself ) I know I am getting a bit long winded here but a good "repair" Engineer should have a very good working knowledge of everything I mentioned above. I would not recommend taking a stress course until you have accomplished some of the above (It will give you a splitting headache). The best course of action I could recommend is to learn all you can on your own and try to find some experienced old goat in your Engineering Department to become your mentor and get you involved with repairs. Design a repair or two based on what you have learned and submit them for evaluation to your Engineer. You may be suprised at the results. Last but not least, Douglas ( Boeing FSI ) Aircraft offers an excellent "Repair for Engineer's" Course at Cypress California. ( Near Long Beach ) The Structures Course runs one week and composites runs four days. You don't have to be a card carrying Engineer....just pay for the course. I went and I believe the course paid for itself. Not only do they cover "repair" to a knats behind, they teach you how and what to submit to the OEM and or the FAA for 8110-3 Approval. I hope I have given you some hope here.......Its a long and winding road of learning and remembering. I didn't get an Engineering Degree in college, Mine was in Business, But I was pretty good in Math.......

What I have just told you was what I did. I have been doing this for 28 years and I love my job. Every day its somthing new and I love a good challange. ( plus they pay me for it )

The best advice I can give is all of the above and just approach it with the attitude that in this business you learn somthing new every day.

Best of luck

David

 

[Sparweb]

I could add that once you get your degree, you'll have to learn all the stuff davida3d listed off anyway...

But you'll have already the fundamentals of it from a good university, and the rest you will learn much more easily with a university background, too. It could take years of the process, if liaison engineer is exactly what you want to be.

My 0.02$ (Canadian currency, too).


STF

 

[coolbreeze]

I can't help but offer up my own expierence, because I started out like you. I was an aircraft mechanic for about 6 years and ended my technician career as a relief A&P at Tallahassee Regional while going to FSU's College of Egineering. To this day, I can tell you it was the hardest endevor of my life. When it was done, I thought my expierence and education would allow me to go to work anywhere in aviation. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG I've been out of school now for 8 years and have had 1 position that took advantage of my expierence as an A&P. Getting a degree will certainly open up doors for you, but don't think that it's a cure all. I loved being a mechanic and sometimes wish I would have focused more of my energy at being a better one instead of centering my efforts on obtaining an engineering degree. Perhaps like you, I saw the solution to many technical problems coming from the engineering dept, and simply couldn't accept the idea of being second. I don't regret anything, but it's not better, just different. One last thing. I am still in touch with a friend that I recieved my A&P license with. He's at American Airlines going on 12 years with the compnay...we have the same salary.

 

[koopas]

Just to add to what David has said,

The Boeing structural & composite repair course (for Douglas-heritage aircraft) will be held in Long Beach, CA between Oct. 13 and 17. The structural repair part is three days long, while the composite component is two days, for a total of one business week. The cost is $1,500. You can take them separately if you wish. No, I don't work for Boeing, but I signed up for it. Here's the url if you want more info:

http://www.boeing.com/nosearch/seminars-services/

If you're more interested in structural courses for Boeing "up North" aircraft, go to

http://www.alteontraining.com

(formerly known as FlightSafetyBoeing). Look for the course "aircraft structural repair for engineers". There are three parts.

Hope that helps.
Alex

 

[bointucson]

wow, what a great forum. I am very proficient in srm's, s/b, ad's etc. as well as design of repairs. Thanks for the suggestions! esp. the info on the course at Boeing for engineers. I would imagine it's just a matter of getting my foot in the door. Our liaison here at Hamilton Aerospace in Tucson is a former Structures Mech. like myself. Guess I should ask him to mentor me.

 

[edmeister]

I concur with coolbreeze !!
.. after 15 years as a A&P and at least 5 additional years specializing in structural repairs .. I bit the bullet & completed my Aero-Engrg degree in my 40's. When I graduated - to my dismay - life did not turn out as i had expected ..
... somehow being an A&P and engineer does not place you in either category - "No mans land" would be the place ..
- Mechanics dont want you around because all they want is the instruction - not the reason why ... or somebody who wants to re-invent the wheel.
- The engineers are resentful because you have a different perspective & way of thinking then they do. Engineers are interested in standard SRM type repairs - they are not interested in 'accessibility' concerns - leave that problem to the mechanic - "thats what the mechanic gets paid for". .. or .. "its not the engineers job to check what extrusions are in stock" - instead of designing the repair to suit the material stock - obtain the materials (at considerable additional cost) for the repair .. There are a few engineers who prefer an A&P aptitude - but they are rare - and the puritan Ivory Tower league will totally abhor you ! - since you present problems they previously never had to consider.

Even with past A&P experience - the engineering payscale will start at year "1" .. since you are only a 'rooky' engineer get ready to eat dinner at the kiddies table !

For 2 years after graduation I fell back to being a structures technician with a major airline - since it paid much more then engineering (& union security) .. and kept the engineering under my hat ..

Looking back in my career - working 3 years in Liaison with a 3rd Party Regional AMO & 1 year Service Engrg with major Mfr - Im in it now strictly for the money.

The sense of accomplishment & job well done is rare. I miss building home projects at work and playing "hide & seek" with (presently my next door office neighbour) the supervisor
... the little room with no windows is getting smaller every day! ;-)