We just spent over a grand to get company wide access to the Alberta Building Code on IHS. I'm following it along figuring out the wind load when I come to pressure coefficients, it says to see the User's Guide - NBC 2010, Structural Commentaries. Are you kidding me? A thousand bucks wasn't enough? Now we gotta buy another document? Am I missing something? I'm in the US and not real familiar with Canadian Codes. Is this in the public domain any where? Please, somebody tell me that it's hidden on page such and such of the ABC. Surely, it's not this convoluted!
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Alberta Building Code
- Thread starter dozer
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At least the commentary won't set you back $1,000!
Also, I'm not sure how different the ABC is to the OBC, but the OBC is available for free online at:
Also, I'm not sure how different the ABC is to the OBC, but the OBC is available for free online at:
- Thread starter
- #4
It doesn't help, but the next revision of the National Building Code of Canada has moved all of the necessary wind diagrams into the body of the code, so next time the ABC gets updated, you won't need the commentaries to do basic wind design.
>> the next revision of the National Building Code of Canada has moved all of the necessary wind diagrams into the body of the code
That's not true. In latest NBCC2015 there is still commentary.
I use NBCC/ABC everyday so below is the facts on NBCC/ABC.
1. Canada national wide release NBCC code. Each province copy NBCC contents and name it as proviincial code name it as ABC (Alberta) , BCBC (British Columbia) etc as the jurisdiction is under Province, not Federal.
As far as I know, the provincial ABC and NBCC are exactly the same
2. NBCC structural part is on Part 4 provide the clauses without detail commentary. Especially for load calculation, all the charts and commentary is in another book called Structural Commentaries-User’s Guide.
This User’s Guide is far more important than the NBCC code part 4 which only states clause but didn't tell why. All the charts and tables are in Commentary User’s Guide which weighs far more important than the NBCC code itself
3. Starting from NBC2015, some charts and tables are moved to part 4, but many useful ones are still in commentary user guide, which cost around CAD155
at
AISC Steel Connection Design Software
That's not true. In latest NBCC2015 there is still commentary.
I use NBCC/ABC everyday so below is the facts on NBCC/ABC.
1. Canada national wide release NBCC code. Each province copy NBCC contents and name it as proviincial code name it as ABC (Alberta) , BCBC (British Columbia) etc as the jurisdiction is under Province, not Federal.
As far as I know, the provincial ABC and NBCC are exactly the same
2. NBCC structural part is on Part 4 provide the clauses without detail commentary. Especially for load calculation, all the charts and commentary is in another book called Structural Commentaries-User’s Guide.
This User’s Guide is far more important than the NBCC code part 4 which only states clause but didn't tell why. All the charts and tables are in Commentary User’s Guide which weighs far more important than the NBCC code itself
3. Starting from NBC2015, some charts and tables are moved to part 4, but many useful ones are still in commentary user guide, which cost around CAD155
at
AISC Steel Connection Design Software
There is still commentary, and it's better than the last round in a lot of ways, but you can do basic design without referring to the commentary. Previously, there were variables necessary to do basic design only defined in the commentary itself.
They made a concerted effort to move key items like basic wind loading definitions and snow drift to the core code where it should be.
They made a concerted effort to move key items like basic wind loading definitions and snow drift to the core code where it should be.
I would say for wind load design most charts are still in the commentary.
The climate data, wind pressure, snow and seismic data are in Appendix C.
AISC Steel Connection Design Software
The climate data, wind pressure, snow and seismic data are in Appendix C.
AISC Steel Connection Design Software
canwesteng
Structural
@amec
Most provinces adopt the NBC as is. IIRC only Alberta, BC and Ontario modify it and have their own codes.
Tbh I would much prefer they put everything in the commentary, it's much cheaper for everyone to have a commentary and reference one copy of the NBC. As is you have seismic in the code, and everything else in the commentary. It's one area the states got right, although I don't envy using ASCE7 all the time.
Most provinces adopt the NBC as is. IIRC only Alberta, BC and Ontario modify it and have their own codes.
Tbh I would much prefer they put everything in the commentary, it's much cheaper for everyone to have a commentary and reference one copy of the NBC. As is you have seismic in the code, and everything else in the commentary. It's one area the states got right, although I don't envy using ASCE7 all the time.
I respectfully disagree amec2004, volume 1 of the 2015 code has almost all of the charts you would use for low rise structures, and the climatic data. I'm looking at it right now and comparing it to the 2010 Commentaries and the only charts found in the commentaries that aren't part of volume 1 of the 2015 code is I-15 through I-34 (except I18 which is included). For the average low-rise structure I'm not sure why you'd need any of the ones that aren't included.
>> the only charts found in the commentaries that aren't part of volume 1 of the 2015 code is I-15 through I-34 (except I18 which is included).
Starting from NBC2015, some charts and tables are moved to part 4, but many useful ones are still in commentary user guide
What I am saying before is "some charts", not all of them, so we still need NBCC 2015 commentary
For example, 2010 commentary wind load Figure I-7 is moved to NBC 2015 Figure 4.1.7.6-A, but I couldn't find 2010 Figure I-15 in 2015 Part 4
In many times you think your building is low rise to use Figure I-7, but actually you should use high rise Figure I-15 when the height/width ratio>1 or height > 20m per Table I-2.
That's a common mistake I found in many engineer's calculation. Even you design a 2m height dog house, if it's 1.9m by 2.0m on plan, you need to use Fig I-15, not Fig I-7 for wind load.
AISC Steel Connection Design Software
Starting from NBC2015, some charts and tables are moved to part 4, but many useful ones are still in commentary user guide
What I am saying before is "some charts", not all of them, so we still need NBCC 2015 commentary
For example, 2010 commentary wind load Figure I-7 is moved to NBC 2015 Figure 4.1.7.6-A, but I couldn't find 2010 Figure I-15 in 2015 Part 4
In many times you think your building is low rise to use Figure I-7, but actually you should use high rise Figure I-15 when the height/width ratio>1 or height > 20m per Table I-2.
That's a common mistake I found in many engineer's calculation. Even you design a 2m height dog house, if it's 1.9m by 2.0m on plan, you need to use Fig I-15, not Fig I-7 for wind load.
AISC Steel Connection Design Software
That is an interesting situation you describe. I wonder if anyone has actually posed this exact question to NRC, because to me it would seem ludicrous to design a dog house for that, albeit when it comes to small things like that I typically design for significantly more wind load than required just to save myself determining the true wind load.
canwesteng
Structural
I think something like a doghouse probably needs to be designed for higher pressures than a barn (obviously though in reality you just let it blow over), since it is a smaller area to average the peak gust over.
OldBldgGuy
Structural
I'm a little confused about the $1K. I hate what I have to pay for the OBC & the Part 4 NBC commentaries, but I pay it and it's a long way from $1K CDN, never mind $1K USD.
1000$ must be for a digital version that can be shared among the entire office. It's too bad you spent it, because that link to the Ontario code posted above seems to be comprehensive.
The NBCC forms the basis of the entire Canadian set of building codes; I know Ontario, Alberta, BC, and the city of Vancouver formally have their own code, but I haven't been able to find one word that changes between the local and national codes (I'm only looking at Part 4, structures).
The commentary is an additional book that goes more into depth and gives guidance. It's worth the hundred bucks IMO.
I guess this is just the cost of doing business in Canada.
everybody pointing to jacubus: I disagree. You should understand the numbers that its crunching, and if you do, its much easier to build better, more comprehensive spreadsheets than what jacubus provides. This mentality of just cramming numbers into a black box and trusting them is dangerous. Any engineer who crams numbers into a black box he didn't write himself, or go through great study to understand what the black box is doing, deserves to be replaced by a computer.
The NBCC forms the basis of the entire Canadian set of building codes; I know Ontario, Alberta, BC, and the city of Vancouver formally have their own code, but I haven't been able to find one word that changes between the local and national codes (I'm only looking at Part 4, structures).
The commentary is an additional book that goes more into depth and gives guidance. It's worth the hundred bucks IMO.
I guess this is just the cost of doing business in Canada.
everybody pointing to jacubus: I disagree. You should understand the numbers that its crunching, and if you do, its much easier to build better, more comprehensive spreadsheets than what jacubus provides. This mentality of just cramming numbers into a black box and trusting them is dangerous. Any engineer who crams numbers into a black box he didn't write himself, or go through great study to understand what the black box is doing, deserves to be replaced by a computer.
- Thread starter
- #18
Yes, the $1K (US) is for a digital version that anyone in the office can look at. I believe even multiple people could look at it at the same time. I would hope so for that amount of money. We do this through IHS, a company that provides codes, etc. electronically. I was very interested to hear that the Alberta Building Code, Part 4 and several other provinces, are the same as NBCC. This is good information to know.
Part 4 is identical, as far as I've been able to tell, across all the provincial codes. Even the Vancouver Building Bylaw, that has quite a few changes in other sections, doesn't get touched. They have commentary additions, effectively, for seismic rehab, but no substantive part 4 changes.
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