All your worries about jobs and China in one story! 4

[jmw]

It appears Murdoch Junior is a bit of a dummy and Murdoch senior had a "Ratner" moment after acquiring Star TV (all in the link above) when:

"And satellite broadcasting makes it possible for information-hungry residents of many closed societies to bypass state-controlled television channels."

Within a month, China had banned the distribution, installation and use of satellite reception dishes anywhere in China.

Quite telling both about Murdoch et Fils and the Chinese.
Makes you wonder what China's real intentions and commitments are to climate change - a bit of window dressing to sell duff turbines, get the west grovelling for a commitment that lets them stifle any concerns about civil rights and sit mumchance while China acquires fossil fuels and minerals around the world.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ScottyUK]

Cranky108,

I agree with your comments that the problems with China are fundamentally ours. I am pretty sure I've said more-or-less the same thing in another thread (about plasterboard as I recall). The problems are twofold: at a corporate level where it is driven by greed / profit; and at a consumer level where we collectively demand cheap goods. We are unwilling to pay the prices necessary to sustain our own economies. My real concern is that our government is ultimately financing this work going overseas through subsidy and grants, at the same time it is funding the welfare payments to UK workers who until recently would have been producing the products we're buying from China. We taxpayers get hit with the costs twice over.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[cranky108]

ScottyUK, I agree with the goverment problems part. I just don't want people believing wind farms are a reliable source of power. So I say so often.

The comment about news sources, above; be sceptable of any news being presented. They all have sources, that may or maynot be reliable.
But also be careful about what agenda they have.

The bigger problem with China isen't the quality. As like Japan, mentioned above, they will, or can get better. But the legal aspects of patent infringment is more of a concern.

Also which country was makeing counterfit bolts a number of years ago?

 

[ScottyUK]

I think we agree. I can only repeat my earlier comment: "(a blackout) will finally prove to the tree-huggers that we actually need big beautiful coal-burning thermal plant and nuclear plant in this country, and prove that the last 20 years of governmental indecision in lieu of an energy policy has been the abject failure those within the industry already know it to be."

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[KENAT]

Hang on, when the US congress was putting the 'stimulus package' (nothing to do with page 3) together, and wanted to stipulate things like using US steel I seem to recall Europe, even GB, crying fowl and calling it protectionism.

I happen to think that if taxes raised off the backs of the population of country X are to be used for this kind of thing, it's not unreasonable to expect much, if not all (or it's equivalent in off-sets) of the tax money to be spent in country X.

I recall one comentator at the time saying he didn't really care if other places thought it was protectionism. So long as they responded in king by large programs of domestic spending it would probably improve things even better. Had some logic to it. Although, that's probably not how the EU etc would have responded.

However, this is probably some kind of crazy left wing pinko commy thinking or something.

Oh hang on, the country taking this tax money is a pinko commy country.

(By the way, was it ever determined why it's OK for the US to trade itself into a massive deficit with a nulear armed potentially dangerous 'communist' country like China, but not to even buy a few cigars from Cuba? - NIMBY?)

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[KENAT]

Oh, and as to the quality issue, I have to agree that varies within one country, without having to go to china. While it seems it often isn't done, having the appropriate measures of explicitly stating your requirements and then enforcing them should eventually work, unless you hit Gregs catch 22 situation.

The issue on patent infringement and related issues around the lack of a functioning civil courts system or substitute is a concern that's less easily subverted by crying 'free market'.

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[cranky108]

Why would anyone think it protectionest for a goverment to demand it's incentive payments to be only used domestically?

Protectionest, to me, is enacting laws, or taxes to restrict products from other countries.
It has nothing to do with how the money is spent.

Is it protectionest if I refuse to buy products from China? No, it is a decision that I make. It would be no different if it was a decision a goverment makes (As long as it is not a tax or lay restricting trade).

If you don't like China, or goods from China, don't buy there goods, or boycot them. It's your choice, and you vote with your money.

 

[GregLocock]

"Why would anyone think it protectionest for a goverment to demand it's incentive payments to be only used domestically?"

Because politicians are liars. That means an government which wishes to establish protectionism can do so under the guise of incentive payments.


Cheers

Greg Locock

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[ScottyUK]

Kenat,

I thing there's a definite distinction between illegal trade restrictions protecting an inefficient and high-cost industry from foreign competition, and a government choosing to spend its tax revenue in the domestic market for the overall benefit of the country it is responsible for rather than overseas.


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[SomptingGuy]

A very funny article. The Sun always makes me laugh and cringe at the same time. Proud to be British.

- Steve

 

[corus]

Wait a minute. British experts are being flown into Holland to sort out the mess from chinese workers?? Why aren't the right wing nationalistic Dutch people complaining about all these jonny furregners coming itno their country when they could do the work? Dutch jobs for Dutch workers I say. harrumph.

corus

 

[KENAT]

Scotty, Cranky etc.

You don't have to convince me. I thought the cries of protectionism were BS. Though, at the same time, it can be the start of a slippery slope.

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[pierdesign]

Here's what happens with importing cheap labour to fix their own work.

The Chinese welders discover they like some things about welding in Rotterdam. They get some foreign travel expense pay, in Euros! Probably some nice equipment too like welding goggles and masks, maybe even clean gasses and weld rod that doesn't spit, bubble, burn. But hard currency expense pay!

They'll buddy up 10 to a room, refund other hotel or camp fees pocketing the currency. Get back home with an extra couple of months or years of cash in their pocket. Unbelievable wealth.

Stuck in the welding yard back home, plans are hatched on next big welding project for UK or where ever: hot to get me a year or two of extra pay in a couple of weeks.


I know, it's quite facetious. But foreign conference and overseas work teams sent from Africa do this, not manual labour but academic, health, etc. workers.

 

[jmw]

Corus,
you have a point, it should be Dutch workers in Holland.

But the kit shouldn't have gone to Holland either, it should have been delivered to the UK.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[jmw]

I am indebted to the Number watch website for this link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...08/AR2008030802595.html?referrer=emailarticle

And this:

http://astuteblogger.blogspot.com/2009/09/green-jobs-shrinking-not-growing.html

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[corus]

I wonder if the british workers (nay immigrants) hired to work in Holland, undercut the Dutch workers pay? Just a thought.

corus

 

[KENAT]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33495737/ns/us_news-the_elkhart_project

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[apsix]

Euroland doesn't have British or Dutch workers, they are all European.

 

[KENAT]

Britain isn't part of Euroland, last I heard it still had pound stirling.

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[apsix]

OK, my definition is a little broad, you may substitute with EU.