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Alternate Titles for a Process Engineer (EIT)

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AggieCHEN04

Chemical
Feb 4, 2005
56
I recently got a job at a small company in Texas that designs natural gas processing plants. I'm basically a process engineer, but I can't be called an "engineer" because I'm not a PE yet. My official title is "process associate," but I don't particularly care to use that.

What are some other alternate titles for process engineers? Is simply putting "process engineering" beneath my name acceptable if it refers to a department. (really, the "Process Engineering Dept." is just me and another guy)

I think the rules change from state to state, but I could be wrong.

 
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I'm a Texas Aggie ChE graduate with a PE license in Texas, and I know for a fact that a graduate engineer in Texas does not have to be licensed in order to be "called" an engineer. Have I missed out on something here?

Your company may not want to call you an engineer, but by all other Texas standards and conventions you are, indeed, a graduate Chemical Engineer and recognized as one. Our great state does not require you to have an engineering license in order to be hired as an engineer - at least not yet. If it did, my professional engineering fees would automatically jump by a factor of at least 100%!

I believe your company can apply any title to your position that it wants to; I don't believe the Texas State Board of Registered Engineers really gives a hoot what you call yourself - as long as you comply with passing their test(s), following their dictates, and most importantly: paying their outrageous yearly dues. There are no "special" licensing tests in Texas for Process Engineers. I know; I'm one. So, it is my opinion that until registration is mandatory by law for Chemical Engineers you are free to practice as an engineer and be called one in Texas.

I'd be interested in how you have come to your conclusions about taking on an engineering title in Texas when you have graduated from an accredited university with at least a BS in engineering.



Art Montemayor
Spring, TX
 
Taken from the Texas Board of Professional Engineers FAQ.


What title can I use if I'm a graduate engineer?


Graduates of all public universities recognized by the American Association of Colleges and Universities have the right to disclose any college degrees received and use the title "Graduate Engineer" on stationery, business cards, and personal communications of any character. A graduate engineer who is employed by a registered firm and who is supervised by a licensed professional engineer may use the term "engineer". Refer to the Texas Engineering Practice Act, Section 1001.406.
 
I am working for a certified firm but my supervisor isn't registered as a professional engineer in the state of Texas.

Also, is there a way to edit these posts?
 
AggieCHEN04:

If your supervisor (who isn't registered in Texas) calls himself an engineer on his calling card, his office sign, his company title, to his clients, etc. etc., then my prior point is made.

Sorry, but there is no way to edit the posts in Eng-Tips after you have posted. If I have a rather long post, I use my word processor and then cut-'n-paste after spell-checking and proofing. Also, you can use the "Preview Post" feature button at the bottom of the response box and subsequently edit prior to posting. But once posted, you've nailed down the coffin.

Gig 'Em.

Art Montemayor
Spring, TX
 
Well it's just something I've heard (from multiple sources) about how TBPE has recently started cracking down on how people use the term engineer. I went to an engineering ethics seminar at A&M last year and basically heard the same thing. Technically my boss isn't supposed to either, since he

This seems pretty consistent with what other engineering firms are doing. One thing I noticed when interviewing with other design firms is the absence of the word engineer from alot of the younger engineers’ business cards. (unless we are referring to gerund equivalent of "process engineer")

They actually told my boss that he wasn’t supposed to use the term engineer either. Although actually according to Texas Engineering Practice Act, Section 1001.406 they should be able to call him an engineer since his boss is a PE and the company is certified.

I guess really what it boils down to is that I now have about 300 business with the title “Process Associate” on it while my email sig (which I wrote) says “Process Engineering Dept” in place of my title.

 
Associate is the correct terminology.

Unless you are licensed, you cannot use the word "engineer" and you cannot "practice" without a license. These words are defined in law and I have listed them below.

I don't understand why engineers think they do not need a license. Would you use a lawyer or a doctor that doesn't have a license?


§ 1001.002. Definitions
In this chapter:
(1) “Board” means the Texas Board of Professional Engineers.
(2) “Engineer” means a person licensed to engage in the practice of engineering in this state.

§ 1001.003. Practice of Engineering
(a) In this section:
(1) “Design coordination” includes the review and coordination of technical submissions prepared by others, including the work of other professionals working with or under the direction of an engineer with professional regard for the ability of each professional involved in a multidisciplinary effort.
(2) “Engineering survey” includes any survey activity required to support the sound conception, planning, design, construction, maintenance, or operation of an engineered project. The term does not include the surveying of real property or other activity regulated under Chapter 1071.

(b) In this chapter, “practice of engineering” means the performance of or an offer or attempt to perform any public or private service or creative work, the adequate performance of which requires engineering education, training, and experience in applying special knowledge or judgment of the mathematical, physical, or engineering sciences to that service or creative work.

(c) The practice of engineering includes:
(1) consultation, investigation, evaluation, analysis, planning, engineering for program management, providing an expert engineering opinion or testimony, engineering for testing or evaluating materials for construction or other engineering use, and mapping;
(2) design, conceptual design, or conceptual design coordination of engineering works or systems;
(3) development or optimization of plans and specifications for engineering works or systems;
(4) planning the use or alteration of land or water or the design or analysis of works or systems for the use or alteration of land or water;
(5) responsible charge of engineering teaching or the teaching of engineering;
(6) performing an engineering survey or study;
(7) engineering for construction, alteration, or repair of real property;
(8) engineering for preparation of an operating or maintenance manual;
(9) engineering for review of the construction or installation of engineered works to monitor compliance with drawings or specifications;
(10) a service, design, analysis, or other work performed for a public or private entity in connection with a utility, structure, building, machine, equipment, process, system, work, project, or industrial or consumer product or equipment of a mechanical, electrical, electronic, chemical, hydraulic, pneumatic, geotechnical, or thermal nature; or
(11) any other professional service necessary for the planning, progress, or completion of an engineering service.



§ 1001.552. Criminal Penalty
(a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) engages in the practice of engineering without being licensed or exempted from the licensing requirement under this chapter;
(2) violates this chapter;
(3) presents or attempts to use as the person’s own the license or seal of another; or
(4) gives false evidence of any kind to the Board or a Board member in obtaining a license.

(b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1421, § 1, eff. June 1, 2003.
 
AggieCHEN04
Throw out the cards and get new ones that say Process Engineer or as mentioned above Process Engineering Specialist. You have the right. What you don't yet have the right to do is at the end of your title to add P.E.
That is all that separates licensed engineers from anyone who wants to call themselves an engineer, with or without a degree. As a side note I am a chemical engineer and my little brother is also has engineer as a title, however he drives trains. Crazy but true.
 
Many companies apply the term "technical professional" to non-registered engineers and designers. Many people use the phrase "Process Engineering" - sort of department approach without a title. From my last reading of the November 2004 rules, I think that you can call yourself a "graduate engineer". This might buy more if you include your EIT number. The latter is applicable to a resume'.

I would avoid a title such as "Engineering Consultant". The board definitely cares what you call yourself if the word engineer is included. This is a larger issue if you sell services to the public. I would not have become licensed if it were not for the rules changes in 1992.

John
 
I agree with StoneCold's candid and frank truths - all of them.

This thread is not supposed to be about "Professional, registered (& "titled") engineers. The sacrosanct subject of "ethics" has even been mentioned. A lot of political and useless "rules" from the Texas State Board of Registration for Professional Engineers has been recited - which does not apply to all graduate engineers - and all this to state what? The original question was: Can I print the title "Process Engineer" under my name on my calling card and on the door to my office? I believe StoneCold answered that clearly. Of course you can. Who is going to stop you? Your boss? The Texas Rangers? The county sheriff? The FBI? The Texas Railroad Commission (since you don't drive locomotives)? The only answer that clearly applies is: Your boss - the guy who signs your check. All the Texas State Board does is TAKE your money (& gives nothing back); the TSB is nothing more than a beaurocratic, political cubby hole for placing inept and incompetant political appointees and justifying the collection of TAXES (because that's really what the dues are) from "professional" engineers. We PE's get absolutely nothing for our dues - not even a chance to pass on the charges to others, which is what Doctors and Lawyers do everyday. We PE's get stuck with the dues, the liability, and the "control" by the state's political machine.

I don't know what AggieCHEN04 means by "cerified". I can only guess he alludes to the ISO classification. But the heart of the thread is that the title an engineer inherits, is given, takes on, or is stuck with has little to do with what he accomplishes. I really don't give a flying flip what the TSB tells me to call myself - and much less what they assert to be their version of the "correct" title.

The more that engineers get mired in politics and bureaucracy, the more ridiculous and ineffective they become. I refuse to compare myself with doctors and lawyers. We are held to much higher and more serious standards than they are. The proof of what I state is that Doctors have society pay for burying their deadly mistakes and insurance companies (that their patients pay) for covering the survivors of their mistakes. Lawyers are even more devious: society pays them to defend everyone (without any liability) and then incarcerates the product of their ineptness or mistakes. We, as professional engineers, face incarceration and prosecution if we make a mistake in our calculations or if our workers do not follow our instructions. And we have no insurance coverage for that.

We can call ourselves whatever we want - it's still a free country - and we don't have to be locomotive drivers to be engineers.


Art Montemayor
Spring, TX
 
Art,
As usual your post is insightful. In this case it is also inciteful. Our dinero is applied to the general fund and not engineering. Renewal time?

John
 
Don't know where all of the anti-establishment hostility comes from. For pete's sake, even the lowly beautician or locksmith is required to have a license.

What would you think of a person who put "doctor of medicene" on his card. Who would be willing to pay that person? The license procedures was put in place to protect the public from unscrupulous people.

If one want to avoid the "potential" for future problems, use the word "associate" or "technician".

One other comment, the company where I used to work changed all of the business cards (including pe's) from engineer to associate to avoid problems when working out of state. For instance, you can can't legally go into texas to solicit work when your business card is a PE from another state.
 
Just use the title used in your signing of the job contract. I think a Process Engineer Title is suitable enough. I guess you can also use Process Engineer Associate.
 
bimr:

I don't believe the subject or the topic of registering for a PE is the point in this thread. I believe that subject should be discussed in a totally different Forum - such as "How to improve myself.." (if registration can be considered an "improvement").

If you are a PE, as I am, then you can appreciate the arbitrary and different points of view on that subject. I won't discuss them here, but will only re-iterate my response to the original question: you can legally and democratically call yourself a Process Engineer in Texas - whether the State Registration Board agrees on that is a totally different and irrevalent issue, as long as you don't call yourself a PE or consult as a PE. I don't believe the Board has the legal authority to have you arrested or incarcerated for calling yourself an engineer; otherwise, all the locomotive drivers from Orange to El Paso would be in jail - as StoneCold inferred.

If engineers want to associate themselves with or call themselves locksmiths or hairdressers, that's their right also. These Eng-Tips Forums are for ALL ENGINEERS - whether registered, PE, or just graduates. That has been dictated by the forum management and coincides to what I stated previously.


Art Montemayor
Spring, TX
 
Montemayer, The following are excerpts from Texas Law. Suggest you read it carefully or have your lawyer explain it you.

Nobody disagrees as to what you want to call yourself. The point is that it is illegal to practice or hold yourself out to be an engineer if you do not have a license:

"§ 1001.552. Criminal Penalty
(a) A person commits an offense if the person:
(1) engages in the practice of engineering without being licensed or exempted from the licensing requirement under this chapter;"


Here is the definition of "engineer" in texas law:

"§ 1001.002. Definitions
In this chapter:

(2) “Engineer” means a person licensed to engage in the practice of engineering in this state.

Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1421, § 1, eff. June 1, 2003."


The practice of engineering is specifically spelled out as well:

"c) The practice of engineering includes:
(1) consultation, investigation, evaluation, analysis, planning, engineering for program management, providing an expert engineering opinion or testimony, engineering for testing or evaluating materials for construction or other engineering use, and mapping;
(2) design, conceptual design, or conceptual design coordination of engineering works or systems;
(3) development or optimization of plans and specifications for engineering works or systems;
(4) planning the use or alteration of land or water or the design or analysis of works or systems for the use or alteration of land or water;
(5) responsible charge of engineering teaching or the teaching of engineering;
(6) performing an engineering survey or study;
(7) engineering for construction, alteration, or repair of real property;
(8) engineering for preparation of an operating or maintenance manual;
(9) engineering for review of the construction or installation of engineered works to monitor compliance with drawings or specifications;
(10) a service, design, analysis, or other work performed for a public or private entity in connection with a utility, structure, building, machine, equipment, process, system, work, project, or industrial or consumer product or equipment of a mechanical, electrical, electronic, chemical, hydraulic, pneumatic, geotechnical, or thermal nature; or
(11) any other professional service necessary for the planning, progress, or completion of an engineering service."

In regards to your brother the "train engineer", there is a specific exemption in Texas law:

"§ 1001.055. Mechanical, Electrical, or Other Equipment
(a) A person is exempt from the licensing requirements of this chapter if the person is installing, operating, repairing, or servicing a
locomotive or stationary engine, steam boiler, diesel engine, internal combustion engine, refrigeration compressor or system, hoisting
engine, electrical engine, air conditioning equipment or system, or mechanical, electrical, electronic, or communications equipment or
apparatus.
(b) This exemption does not permit a person to:
(1) sign an engineering plan or specification if the person is not an engineer; or
(2) use the term “engineer” or “engineering” in any manner prohibited by this chapter."

AggieCHEN04 is free to call himself a "graduate engineer", not "engineer", "process engineer", or anything other type of "engineer" if he complies with the following section of texas law:

"§ 1001.406. Graduate Engineers
(a) A graduate of a university recognized by the American Association of Colleges and Universities who has a degree from an engineering program accredited by the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology (ABET) has the right to:
(1) disclose any college degree received by the person; and
(2) use the term “graduate engineer” on the person’s stationery or business cards or in personal communications of any character.
(b) A graduate engineer who is employed in a firm registered under this chapter and who is working under the direct supervision of a licensed professional engineer may use the term “engineer” on the person’s stationery or business cards or in personal communications of any character.

Added by Acts 2001, 77th Leg., ch. 1421, § 1, eff. June 1, 2003.Amended 78th Leg, SB 277, eff. September 1, 2003."



Otherwise, if an unlicensed person wants to avoid the "potential" for a problem with the licensing board, it is recommended to use the words "associate" or "technician".
 
The original question was "What are some other alternate titles for process engineers?"

The answer is that you can call yourself anything you want to except for "engineer" unless you qualify to be called a "graduate engineer" in accordance with "§ 1001.406. Graduate Engineers.
 
Where do you guys work? I think it's interesting (although not entirely surprising) that the civil/environmental guy is the biggest stickler about the issue.

From my own understanding, it seems that the type of "process engineer" you are makes a big difference as to how closely people follow the letter of the law. For example:

Internal: You work as a process engineer in a production facility like Shell, Exxon, Encana, etc. All of the engineering work is internal. Well, who the hell cares what you call yourself? You aren't going out and pedaling engineering services to the general populous. Technically, (although it's generally not done anymore) somebody could be promoted to an engineering position without any college at all. If this was the type of job that I had, I wouldn't have any reason to start this thread.

Private Consulting: This is where I am, and it's also where it becomes hazy. Calling yourself an engineer in this field without being a PE seems to be a bit naughty. Generally (as I mentioned before) I've notice that young engineers generally don't seem to use the term "engineer" in their titles unless it's followed by PE. I'm not quite sure why. I guess it has to do with the politics and the fact that you are offering your services to others makes you more visible. The cardinal rule is, practice engineering all you want, but don't sign off on any government projects. (which you aren't likely to see anyways)

Public Work: This is probably the reason that the term "Professional Engineer" exists. Probably 99% of chemical engineers will only work for private companies doing private projects/work and will never do work for the government or the general public. But it makes perfect since that if you are doing work for the general public (your bosses in an extremely round-about way) that you would need the governments stamp of approval. This seems to be especially important for all forms of civil engineering.

Not that any of this is important to me right now, but since we have seemed to have moved from the specific supject to the philosophy of engineering, I thought I'd get my two cents in.

Just a side note to bimr: I used to work at a company where a guy was promoted directly from welder/maintenance to HSE. As long as nothing catastrophic happens, it will probably never be a problem.
 
AggieCHEN04:

In your original post you stated: "I recently got a job at a small company in Texas that designs natural gas processing plants." Now your say: "Private Consulting: This is where I am..".

Now we're all confused.


Art Montemayor
Spring, TX
 
Basically, I meant consulting type work in the private sector....as opposed to doing work for the government.

Yes, I appoligize, that was poorly worded.
 
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