am I being shafted? 1

[oneintheeye]

this is probably not a new complaint but I have become aware of some information. My experience is approx 9 years after graduation. I am a chartered engineer (UK) which I got middle of last year. Some of that time, approx 2 and a half years was spent on site. The rest is in a design office. I currently work in design (civil/structural consultancy).

The info I have come across shows me I am paid £1500 more than the fresh wave of graduates coming into the company. I believe on a exchange rate of 1.6 at mo thats $2400 US dollars. Opinions? At the moment I'm thinking what am I doing here.

 

[Waidesworld]

When we went through tough times in early 09 they dismissed the three biggest pay checks. Problem was that one of those was a very valuable part of the company. His replacement was an associates degree with no work experience. I can see some failings with the newbie but he's holding up well and with 20 or so years less experience the company is saving about $20-$30K at a guess per year.

drawn to design, designed to draw

 

[oneintheeye]

my problem is if I bring this up and get rejected straight away I may be labelled as the unhappy one who might jump later anyway. If cuts need to be made I'll then be first to go. Think I need to dust of the CV over next couple of weeks and see whats about.

 

[ScottyUK]

Get your CV tidied up, get it out there, and when you get a better offer accept it. And when your current employer counter-offers you more money to stay, politely tell them to stick it up their ass. Never stay for the promise of more money: you'll be lucky to get another raise within five years. You can always go back to a more senior position after a year or two if it is a nice place to work.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[Ron]

It's called salary compression and yes, you're getting screwed. Usually takes a job change to get equity.

 

[apsix]

"And when your current employer counter-offers you more money to stay", stay if you think that it's to your advantage.

Apart from the pay you like working there.
So, you're better off concentrating on your reward rather than on punishing the company.

I was told that there would be no rises this year, but here I am with 20% more.
I found that there were jobs available out there and told my employer I was leaving, that's when they started getting serious about my work condtions.

If you don't tell your employer that you are unhappy they will assume that you're satisfied with your conditions.
It's not unusual for employers to pay as liitle as they think they can get away with, it doesn't mean that they're total b-st-rds.

 

[oneintheeye]

I've got a bit more info now and turns out they get a 2000 pound welcome bonus. That means I will now earn less this year than a straight out of college graduate.
As I said it would be a shame to leave as I love the work place here but I'm not happy being taken advantage of.

 

[SomptingGuy]

Note that the real exchange rate for engineering salaries is more like 2.5$/1£ (e.g. for an internal transfer from a British office to a USA office). So your £1500 is more like $3750.

- Steve

 

[Ussuri]

So you have nine years experience and are chartered, and a brand spanking new graduate gets paid £500 more than you. Dude, you need to leave.

 

[rbulsara]

There is nothing to feel sorry about present job or employer if you are experienced and they are shafting you. You would love other job as well as long as you are good.

People loving or hating the jobs, has also a lot to do with their abilities to perform them. You love your job means you are good at what you do, so do not hesitate to make a move.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[oneintheeye]

I suppose one issue is my self confidence to move somewhere else. Previously I've been at graduate level positions so I go there and think well they expect me to not know everything. Now however that won't be the case. I'm sure i'd be fine, but its the unknown i suppose.

 

[oneintheeye]

a bit more advice if you don't mind everyone (and thanks for posting so far). How do I handle this, to my mind I have two options;

1) Look around and apply. If I get a job offer then leave. Should the company counter offer then I would probably at that stage still leave not to leave any bad feeling with the new prospective employer. So once I start applying I'm effectively gone sooner or later.

2) Speak to my boss, outline why I believe I am worth more than a starting graduate (laughable I know). Not sure whether I should bring up the starters salary as I got the info by 'covert' means. This may anger them. The main downside of this is that they may decide to say thats the way it is and decide that to let me go sometime soon as they expect me not to stay around. Especially if we are not flat out busy. As I have a family with another child on the way this is a risk for me.

Any advice?

 

[Debaser]

Go to the NCE website and look at some of the articles with multiple pages of comments. Mainly it's engineers (rightly) bemoaning the state of the profession, and there seems to be a crisis in the UK civils profession (again), with not enough people going for Chartership, not seeing the need. (My own company tries hard at every performance review to get people to become Chartered/Incorporated).

The fact you ARE Chartered and your company apparently values you so little is alarming. The only downside to leaving your job right now, as you will know, is the current state of the industry and evidently low morale.

 

[oneintheeye]

thats why I'm worried about bringing it up without a 'fall back'. Of course once I have that fall back I'm already gone.
I too have read the articles and comments (nce.co.uk), also the frankly patronising aricle by antony oliver. If it wasn't for yhe family I think I'd be retraining already.

 

[TDAA]

Advice: Push on rock, bracing against hard place. You should be able to find both nearby.

If it is a place you really want to stay at, then talk to the boss, otherwise start looking.

 

[oneintheeye]

I think I'll bring it up at review, even though we are asked not to and see what happens. In the meantime I'll update CV and get it to some agencies to see what it generates. At least I will have some idea on options then. Cheers guys, I don't know why companies behave like this.

 

[ScottyUK]

Companies behave like this be cause we, as a profession, allow them to get away with it.

Most of us will at some time have stayed in a job where we were being under-rewarded compared to our peers just because we enjoyed the job. It's nothing to be ashamed of - think how many people have to do a job they hate, and then be grateful for doing something you love - but it is something you need to be aware of, especially once you have been in a place for a little while. It's easy to get complacent.


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If we learn from our mistakes I'm getting a great education!

 

[rbulsara]

Herewegothen:

If I were you, I will only consider 1). I would not consider accepting counter offer.. that would only be a proof that they have taken advantage of you so far and no guarantee they would not do again.

But you know your situation and relationships the best, so its your decision in the end. I would say discuss this with your family member.

Rafiq Bulsara

http://www.srengineersct.com

 

[patprimmer]

On this occasion I agree with Rafiq. They shafted you once and will again at the first opportunity.

Regards
Pat
See FAQ731-376 for tips on use of eng-tips by professional engineers &

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm

for site rules

 

[bridgebuster]

you're being screwed.

I agree don't take the counter offer because the factors that made you quit will return in a few months.

 

[SteelPE]

Capitalism at its best.

You have to remember you are working for a company. It is the job of the managers to make as much money for the stock holders. This loosely translates into screwing you out of as much money as they can.

However, as the employee, it is your job to try and get as much money out of the company as possible. Look around, some people are better at this than others.

Personally, I would never take a counter offer from my existing company. As Bridgebuster states, in a few months, the factors that made you look for a new position will return.