An engineering solution - long term storage in aluminium 1

[GregLocock]

The joke at one of our local aluminium smelters was that aluminium was frozen electricity.

So, you have covered your prime agricultural land in solar panels. When the sun shines the transmission lines run red hot. When the sun inconveniently fails to shine, as it does at least once per day, they go cold.

I haven't tried to estimate the efficiency of this, but why not put one of these on site and provide actual baseload power?

A proposal by the Swiss Institute for Solar Technology (which leads this nine nation; Horizon Europe funded project[2] combines these three ideas (seasonal storage of heat and electrical energy) by using an integrated approach known as the REVEAL model.[3]

Regional resources include an
aluminum smelting facility possibly powered by a solar furnace and the
mains electrical grid
Locally, aluminium and water are fed into a
a chemical reactor to produce aluminum hydroxide (Al(OH)3 ) which is returned to the smelter as well as locally consumed heat and hydrogen to feed a
a fuel cell, which produces both electricity and heat
The two sources of heat are combined and supplied to local domestic and commercial premises while the electricity from the fuel cell is merged with any existing supplies such as local solar panels or regional grid-connected sources[4][5]

You might end up with a yard full of cast aluminium rods, which can happily sit outside for days months or years until needed.

Cheers

Greg Locock


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[dik]

Can you use aluminum beer cans?

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Beer cans are all made of aluminum now, I think. So yes, I can use some.

 

[dik]

Re-cycling at its best.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[hokie66]

Aluminum cans are, of all the things that can be recycled, the most important and most economical.

 

[dik]

Yes, and I understand they will outlast the pyramids... The problem with aluminum, I understand, is that a lot of power is required to produce it. In future that may restrict some of the countries that produce it. Canada is fortunate in that a lot of our power is hydro, and renewable without a large carbon footprint.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[JoshPlumSE]

Canada is fortunate in that a lot of our power is hydro, and renewable without a large carbon footprint.

Honestly, the same thing could be said about California. The big snafu that we're having now is the drought has robbed us of a lot of the hydro power we rely on.

Also, for what it's worth, our state government doesn't consider hydro power to be "green". Nor, do they consider nuclear to be green. So, our "betters" in Sacramento and elsewhere are always wanting to shut down nuclear and limit hydro in favor of solar and wind (eye roll).

 

[dik]

Governments can be 'funny' at times... two of the most green power sources. In Canada due to the impact of flooding on Indigenous property and desecration of burial sites, it is a bit of an issue.

Nuclear has a bit of a 'bad' history, but if safely implimented, it can be great. Disposal is a bit of an issue, but not insurmountable...

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

I welcome any energy solutions that don't require uncommon metals such as nickel, cobalt, or platinum.

 

[TugboatEng]

Nuclear disposal should be easy. Our mantle is already radioactive, we just need to dispose of the waste closer to said mantle, in a very deep hole. Heck, let the waste deposit go critical so that it melts its hole even deeper.

 

[SnTMan]

Well, we already have, or had Yucca Mountain

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

 

[rb1957]

"Canada is fortunate in that a lot of our power is hydro, and renewable without a large carbon footprint."

funny you say that dik ... doesn't Canada show up poorly on yourthe per capita CO2 emissions chart ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[dik]

Well aware of that Tug and have mentioned it often in the past postings. We have a bit of an excuse due to our small population, cold climate and long travel distances, as I've also noted.

If you take a gander at the countries with over 100 million, the US leads the pack with China having about half the carbon footprint of the US. Because their population is substantially greater than the US by a factor of nearly 5, the US refuses to act on climate change stating that China is a worse offender. This is simply not true on a per capita basis. The US still leads the pack.

and more recent data, that I've, also, posted earlier. Australia's redeeming feature is the low population, like Canada's. Their climate and long travel distances pale in comparison to that of Canada:

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[dik]

Yes, else our per capita footprint would be larger. See the chart... the US is way down the list. Less than Canada, a much smaller country with about 1/10 the population. China's hydro production is 3x that of the US.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[TugboatEng]

Deleted my comment, let's not hijack a legitimate climate change engineering solutions thread and keep the bickering to one of the many climate change politics discussions already in progress.

 

[rb1957]

why stop now ?

I don't see how dik can post per capita CO2 emissions and then say, lets forgive Australia and Canada, which makes the US the highest.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

 

[moltenmetal]

Storage solutions require decent cycle efficiency, and any process involving a) melt electrolysis AND b) hydrogen is going to score poorly on that basis.

If you're going to store up aluminum in large quantity as an emergency energy store, at least have the sense to use it in a primary battery rather than involving hydrogen. You'll still need lossy, emissive melt electrolysis as a "recharger", but at least you'll get a few more kWh per kg of aluminum to put to some productive purpose than if you mess about with hydrogen as a molecular middleman.

(

http://www.spitfireresearch.com)

 

[dik]

Sorry, I missed your comment... only a couple of things to note... If you look at the countries with populations over 100 million, the US, as usual, is #1...

Canada has a high per capita output and we should be doing better. Our high value is moderated a bit because we are amoung the top four for hydro production, else our per capita would be a lot higher. Australia doesn't have the same excuse we have other than their population. Canada's population is low, our climate is quiet cold and travel distances are quite large. These contribute to a high per capita. That's the only thing I can offer as an excuse. Our government has failed when it comes to climate change (and a few other things).

Many of the small Middle East countries have excessive per capita carbon footprints due the their small population. This differs from the US which as a huge carbon footprint and a huge population to go with it. China's carbon footprint, per capita, is about half the US. Because their total output is high (with 5x the population), like India's, they are cited as being the reason not to do anything.

So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

 

[GregLocock]

"Storage solutions require decent cycle efficiency" not if you have a massive overbuild of solar (for example) - where there is no other use for the excess power in summer. You don't think about % efficiency, you think about kWh stored/$. Now, I don't know how this stacks up against other long term storage proposals, or whether an aluminium+oxygen process makes more sense. Maybe they just stuck hydrogen in there to make it all sound techy, I'm sure some tax payer somewhere is paying for this.




Cheers

Greg Locock


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