Anchor points in piping 5

[sider]

Hi all,

could use some advice on anchor point topic.

From my understanding, when an expansion joint is installed in the piping system, it must be located between 2 anchor points ( we are talking about a straight line of CHW piping, 40 m long, the difference between installation and working temp around 25°C ).

Based on conditions in piping, both working and during testing, the calculation gives me that for DN150 there has to be an anchor point with 26000 N (testing done on 10 bar). I am going through different manufacturers of anchor points, however, just couldn't find any anchor point to take upon such load. What kind of anchoring do you usually use in such cases?

BR

 

[LittleInch]

OK, so what we really have here is 3 separate skids / modules of approx 17m length and you have concerns / issues over misalignment between each module, so you are using some sort of flexible coupling / bellows. So yes, an anchor point in the middle is a good idea. relying on the guides to equally guide the contraction / expansion is not a great idea as it tends to end up concentrating movement.

But these anchors may not see much force as forces are balanced between the two in many circumstances.

I can't see the amount of movement of this pipe bothering connections which are 4m long.

This pipe will contract so just make sure your flexible joints / bellows can't expand and hence endcap forces just get balanced along the entire pipe for pressure test purposes.

What type are these bellows?

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[Snickster]

The way I would try to design it is to use one anchor at center of long horizontal run at ground level - this will force approximately 0.25 inches of thermal expansion into each of the risers at the end of horizontal pipe. This should be able to be taken by elastic deformation of the risers. If not, tied bellows expansion joints can be installed in the risers near the horizontal run to take the lateral deflection of the horizontal run and allow axial deflection of the vertical risers. Place guides in horizontal run as required, Place a riser support/anchor/limit stop in each vertical run to roof close to equipment connections to let vertical pipe expand down and away from equipment connections. Place other guides in vertical runs as required. note by placing anchor in center of horizontal run forces on each side should balance so theoretically there will be a minimum design load on anchor.

 

[MJCronin]

I believe that this conversation has gotten WAY, WAY off track ....

This is a madhouse ....

Let us acknowledge ... THIS IS A VERY MODEST, VERY MINOR THERMAL EXPANSION PROBLEM !!! This is a low temperature, small bore system !

Let us also acknowledge .... Elbow flexibility and competent piping design and layout is the MOST OFTEN USED method of imparting flexibility to a system !!!!

https://www.protton.co.in/pdf/03Attachment3.pdf

I have not seen an elbow in this system ..... How is this possible ?

No credit is taken for gaps in piping restraints or modest anchorage stiffness !!!

Will the OP acknowledge that this is the first piping system he has ever designed ?

Does either the brother-in-law or cousin of the OP sell expansion joints ?

Explain why incorporation of elbows into this system is impossible ....

I also agree with always sage LittleInch .....

"So yes, an anchor point in the middle is a good idea. relying on the guides to equally guide the contraction / expansion is not a great idea as it tends to end up concentrating movement. But these anchors may not see much force as forces are balanced between the two in many circumstances. (DUH !)

I can't see the amount of movement of this pipe bothering connections which are (only)4m long.

As always, my opinion only ....


MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

 

[1503-44]

Not yours alone.

There should only be minor friction loads to not worry about.

A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.

 

[LittleInch]

I agree.

If you need to use the bellows for misalignment issues between your sections then do it, but forget about the last ones which connect ot the risers and just let them move the odd mm or 2.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

 

[sider]

Thanks for all valuable comments.