And here there is a lesson in ethics 1

[EdStainless]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59186655

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[TheTick]

"Metallurgist admits faking steel test results for US Navy subs"

Always nice to see a headline or description before following a random link.

 

[TheTick]

I know someone who lost his job the same way. He was a lab tech in a foundry. He was lazy and faked a bunch of test reports instead of doing the tests. He goy caught because he did a bad job faking.

Honesty may be the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

-SolidWorks API VB programming help

 

[EdStainless]

Thanks Tick, I meant to copy that in also.
But at least the link goes to a real website ...

A place that I worked for years had put CAP in the box for one of the tests. they did the actual test once a year to assure that the material was capable and then didn't do them for each lot. For years that passed audits (from customers using that material), and then one day it became a huge issue.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[jari001]

If you didn't show me the news story, I'd say this was a tall tale...I can't fathom how a professional in that position ends up like this.

 

[SuperSalad]

There was a field tech my brother worked with some time ago who was faking soil and ground water test results for remediation sites. That dude got into A LOT of trouble; criminal charges as I recall.

- Andrew

 

[MintJulep]

Well, at least she had a good reason.

Ms Thomas suggested that in some cases she gave metal positive results because she thought it was "stupid" that the Navy required the tests to be conducted at -100F (-70C),

 

[JohnRBaker]

The Navy should be able verify the capabilities of the steel in each sub since I would expect that it's standard practice to keep samples of the steel used just for situations like this. These samples could be tested to verify that it did indeed meet the specifications. Only if these tests shows that there's a problem, would they have to bring the boats in for a check of the actual parts manufactured using this steel.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

 

[EnergyProfessional]

I don't want to defend the accused person. but what was the motivation beside possibly being lazy? I would be paranoid and spend more time on the fake to not get caught....
It is possible they were under-staffed and had no way to perform all tests. Again, I'm not defending the actions, but the story seems to miss the why.

 

[EdStainless]

That is the weird thing about this one, there doesn't appear to be any reason.


= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[ctopher]

I have seen cutting corners in tests to save $$.
But, to rely on one metallurgist for test results without some type of inspection or at least other eyes on them, something weird. Especially on something as critical for subs.

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '17
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[MintJulep]

Speculation is fun!

No technical detail in the linked story. But, doing anything at -100F is hard. It's well below the capability of any "catalog" environmental chamber.

Either need to purchase specialty test equipment, or send the samples somewhere that has the necessary equipment. In either case, $$$.

The company could have bid and won the contract without the owners understanding the requirements. I guess that could be considered negligence.

 

[EnergyProfessional]

Could be a situation of a manager told her to do the tests. Then she told the manager they don't have a device or time to do -100°F testing. Then manager told her to do it or they find someone else to do the work....

 

[JStephen]

If you're "director of metallurgy" at a foundry, it's reasonable to assume that you have some responsibility for making sure things pass the test(s), as opposed to some lackey just running tests in the lab.

 

[GregLocock]

I'm sort of agreeing with her logic. Last time I heard we don't use subs in liquid nitrogen. I'd like to have been a fly on the wall when that spec was being developed. (OK, it may be that these are castings in the refrigeration circuits or something, but the story made it sound like hull steel). Late edit - the thread on this on the failures forum comes up with plausible reasons why such a low temperature might be required.


Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

 

[coloeng]

Have you ever seen the videos of the subs coming up through the ice in the arctic? How cold does it get in the artic?

 

[EnergyProfessional]

Much better article here

I originally hadn't realized she was very high up in the food chain. With that I assume much more actual fault on her part. More fault than I would give a lowly technician who just follows orders.

As for the -100°F requirement, I assume this is how they get the safety margin. Same way pressure vessels get tested at 2-3 times of the rated pressure. So the requirement likely makes sense, and it is a shame a materials tester doesn't understand that.

 

[ctopher]

Back in the 80's my brother was on subs for approx 25 years (San Diego). I was lucky enough to go out with them 3 times.
2 subs were diesel, one was a nuc.
I had the opportunity to sit in the seat that steers up/down. Somewhere I have a polaroid of me doing it.
I also spent time at the top of the tower with the captain while the sub was submerging. Wish I had a cell phone to video back then. Great experience!

ctopher, CSWP
SolidWorks '17
ctophers home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[EdStainless]

I have seen similar requirements in some Army specs where damage from explosives is a real risk.
The idea is to test lower shelf fracture toughness as a 'worst case'.
I presume that these castings are high strength steels similar to HY100.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

 

[EnergyProfessional]

EdStainless: good point. The sub doesn't just have to dive and move around. All of them do despite the fake tests. but they also have to withstand nearby explosions. And then you really need to know it works.